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  • I dont want anything to do with a Ball, especially if it means dealing Lowry to do it. Agree with the above if your going to do the deal just get Simmions. He's a limited player but still way better now then Lamelo may ever be.
    To be the champs you got to beat the champs

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      • If the Raps showed well in the post season this year (solid showing in the ECF or a Finals appearance), you'd think there's a better chance they try to run the team out just about as is again.

        If the Raps somehow burned out in the post season (2nd round loss, swept in the ECF), you'd think there would be a better chance of reasonable changes ie not bringing back Marc or Serge, consider trading Kyle etc. You can't afford to have a disappointing post season and not do anything, it would destroy and chances of landing the whale Giannis.

        Although I still think we get some sort of bastard playoffs, what to do with this lineup if we don't get a post season for 2020?

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        • The Clippers will bet getting their own arena soon. They'll be fully out of the shadow of the Lakers with that IF they have a banner to hang in the rafters and a trophy in the case. The Raptors need to be ready to spoil that party!

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          • Warriors fans and media are begging Giannis signs with them when he becomes a UFA, they're not even hiding it. Guess they don't have any confidence in Klay and Curry? lol

            Mamba Mentality

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            • The Great One wrote: View Post
              Warriors fans and media are begging Giannis signs with them when he becomes a UFA, they're not even hiding it. Guess they don't have any confidence in Klay and Curry? lol

              Looks like they're going by their history of attracting a superstar taking the easy road to join a superteam (when they get Klay/Curry back plus their top ~3 pick next season).

              Giannis doesn't look like that kind of player though. He'll either stay with the bucks, or if he leaves, it will be to a very specific destination that will be attractive and have meaning to him and his family beyond basketball (while also being a top-notch organization).

              I personally think he will stick around with the bucks long-term, but if he leaves, I'd say we have a decent shot at it. Toronto would have the uniqueness of being the only non-US destination, there's a personal connection with Masai, the organization itself is top notch, and the team/culture organically became a winning one, without being a superteam.
              2019 NBA Champions. Glad to have doubted the doubters.

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              • What do you guys think about this rumored three-way deal involving Lowry going to Philly, Simmons going to San Fran and the Warriors lotto pick going to Toronto so they can draft Ball?

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                • Apollo wrote: View Post
                  What do you guys think about this rumored three-way deal involving Lowry going to Philly, Simmons going to San Fran and the Warriors lotto pick going to Toronto so they can draft Ball?

                  In principle I like the idea of rejuvenating at point-guard, but have some questions:

                  1. How do we know LaMello is not mostly hype, as Lonzo was? I guess you never know in general when it comes to the draft, but in the case of the Ball family there's a history/precedent of inflating the value.

                  2. Lavar Ball, his antics, and how that would fit in the organizational high standards that the Raptors set up over the past few years. Not a deal breaker but it makes me think.

                  3. What's the incoming salary filler on this rumour. I may be wrong but if we're shedding Lowry's salary I think we'd have to get close to that coming back, probably from Golden State? GSW has no one making more the 5M other than Curry, Klay, Draymond, and Wiggings whom they just traded for.

                  4. How would that affect our cap space for the 2021 free agency, and more importantly, how would it affect our chances of landing a top free agent. Can you contend (and therefore attract the big FA) with a rookie 19yr point guard? Or would we start Fred while we slowly groom the kid?

                  5. What would Lowry think about the whole thing. 99.9% of the time that wouldn't be a factor, the NBA is a business and players know it. But Lowry is in GROAT territory, so earned that.
                  2019 NBA Champions. Glad to have doubted the doubters.

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                  • inthepaint wrote: View Post


                    In principle I like the idea of rejuvenating at point-guard, but have some questions:

                    1. How do we know LaMello is not mostly hype, as Lonzo was? I guess you never know in general when it comes to the draft, but in the case of the Ball family there's a history/precedent of inflating the value.

                    2. Lavar Ball, his antics, and how that would fit in the organizational high standards that the Raptors set up over the past few years. Not a deal breaker but it makes me think.

                    3. What's the incoming salary filler on this rumour. I may be wrong but if we're shedding Lowry's salary I think we'd have to get close to that coming back, probably from Golden State? GSW has no one making more the 5M other than Curry, Klay, Draymond, and Wiggings whom they just traded for.

                    4. How would that affect our cap space for the 2021 free agency, and more importantly, how would it affect our chances of landing a top free agent. Can you contend (and therefore attract the big FA) with a rookie 19yr point guard? Or would we start Fred while we slowly groom the kid?

                    5. What would Lowry think about the whole thing. 99.9% of the time that wouldn't be a factor, the NBA is a business and players know it. But Lowry is in GROAT territory, so earned that.
                    I don't know what the Warriors would be doing with Steph/Klay/Wiggins/Simmons/Draymond. Their spacing would be shot. Rest of the league wouldn't be mad, that's a lot to saddle Steph with trying to make that work.
                    "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

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                    • S.R. wrote: View Post

                      I don't know what the Warriors would be doing with Steph/Klay/Wiggins/Simmons/Draymond. Their spacing would be shot. Rest of the league wouldn't be mad, that's a lot to saddle Steph with trying to make that work.
                      Maybe they finally ship Draymond out, some other moves. Time to shake things up there lol

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                        1. Professional scouting and the best GM in the business making the decision from his Presidents chair.
                        2. He's backed off significantly. Even a guy with that much ego cannot deny that his actions hurt his eldest sons early basketball career.
                        3. No clue. Simmons' upside is gigantic. It might come down to the question of are the Raptors willing to put their developmental system to the ultimate test of keeping Wiggins motivated so he can fully utilize his talents? I think Wiggins is very expendable with Ben Simmons in the mix. Simmons is the absolute perfect fit for this Warriors team and their current strengths.
                        4. Is DanH around? I don't pay any heed to the CBA anymore. We have cap experts in the house who know this stuff better than 99.99% of people out there. Someone will give us the lowdown.
                        5. Lowry would not be shocked and he would probably LOVE it. Why? Because Toronto is done winning chips for now, he's from Philly and they have a team ready to contend. It would be a gift for him and once he's done he will get honored tremendously here in Toronto no matter what. He's a Raptor for life.

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                        • S.R. wrote: View Post

                          I don't know what the Warriors would be doing with Steph/Klay/Wiggins/Simmons/Draymond. Their spacing would be shot. Rest of the league wouldn't be mad, that's a lot to saddle Steph with trying to make that work.
                          Yeah the fact that Simmons can't shoot is a gift to any opposing defence. When your "point-guard" doesn't shoot, that becomes the starting point of the opponents defensive game-plan, then everything gets locked down from there.

                          In clutch games his game actually changes too - he becomes less aggressive in the paint to avoid fouls and trips to the free-throw line (which is actually the opposite of every other player, which will go to the paint looking for the contact). So in the clutch, he doesn't have an outside shot NOR an inside presence. So he's basically there just for defence and transition buckets.

                          One might argue that he's the perfect complement to knock-down shooters like Steph/Klay, but if you also got Draymond on the floor and to some extent Wiggins to sag from besides simmons, that's tough.
                          2019 NBA Champions. Glad to have doubted the doubters.

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                          • Apollo wrote: View Post
                            1. Professional scouting and the best GM in the business making the decision from his Presidents chair.
                            2. He's backed off significantly. Even a guy with that much ego cannot deny that his actions hurt his eldest sons early basketball career.
                            3. No clue. Simmons' upside is gigantic. It might come down to the question of are the Raptors willing to put their developmental system to the ultimate test of keeping Wiggins motivated so he can fully utilize his talents? I think Wiggins is very expendable with Ben Simmons in the mix. Simmons is the absolute perfect fit for this Warriors team and their current strengths.
                            4. Is DanH around? I don't pay any heed to the CBA anymore. We have cap experts in the house who know this stuff better than 99.99% of people out there. Someone will give us the lowdown.
                            5. Lowry would not be shocked and he would probably LOVE it. Why? Because Toronto is done winning chips for now, he's from Philly and they have a team ready to contend. It would be a gift for him and once he's done he will get honored tremendously here in Toronto no matter what. He's a Raptor for life.
                            Sounds like it would boil down to Lowry for Wiggins and Lamello then. That would also kill our caps space for 2021 because Wiggins makes 33M till 2023. So basically we got:

                            Outgoing:
                            --All hustle, ultracompetitor and off-the-charts basketball IQ Kyle Lowry
                            --Our 2021 cap space and our chance to land a top free agent then

                            Incoming:
                            --Low energy/questionable competitor and below average 3pt shooter Wiggins (and his 33M contract till 2023)
                            --Unknown 19yr old Lamello to run our offence

                            I get that we'd get a lot younger, but I'll pass on that one personally.

                            2019 NBA Champions. Glad to have doubted the doubters.

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                            • inthepaint wrote: View Post

                              Yeah the fact that Simmons can't shoot is a gift to any opposing defence. When your "point-guard" doesn't shoot, that becomes the starting point of the opponents defensive game-plan, then everything gets locked down from there.

                              In clutch games his game actually changes too - he becomes less aggressive in the paint to avoid fouls and trips to the free-throw line (which is actually the opposite of every other player, which will go to the paint looking for the contact). So in the clutch, he doesn't have an outside shot NOR an inside presence. So he's basically there just for defence and transition buckets.

                              One might argue that he's the perfect complement to knock-down shooters like Steph/Klay, but if you also got Draymond on the floor and to some extent Wiggins to sag from besides simmons, that's tough.
                              The whole Warriors dynasty hinged on discovering/revealing the "Death Lineup" - which took a lumbering centre off the floor and allowed them to play 5 out. That's been their whole thing. It would be a major shift for them to try to make core lineups with a non-shooter work again. Not saying they wouldn't do it, but smells a little Spurs-like to me - the Spurs lost their secret ingredient but tried to stay relevant by acquiring the talent they could in moves that didn't totally make sense for them. And their roster declined overall over time. Warriors aren't exactly there because they still have prime Steph and Klay, but they also have a declining Draymond and a couple head scratching transactions with D-Lo and Wiggins that basically amount to "this was the best talent available and we'll either try to make an awkward fit work or we'll flip him for something else." Simmons would be the third trade in a row like that, again smells a bit like the Spurs cycling through Rudy Gay, LA, DD, etc. Eventually you never do manage to make the awkward fit work or to flip that talent for something better, you're just stuck with a slightly less good roster. And over time the fact that you've lost your secret sauce because more and more evident as a former contender ends up fighting for bottom bracket playoff spots.

                              Not that I'm complaining, I've had enough of GS's run.
                              "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

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                              • inthepaint wrote: View Post

                                Sounds like it would boil down to Lowry for Wiggins and Lamello then. That would also kill our caps space for 2021 because Wiggins makes 33M till 2023. So basically we got:

                                Outgoing:
                                --All hustle, ultracompetitor and off-the-charts basketball IQ Kyle Lowry
                                --Our 2021 cap space and our chance to land a top free agent then

                                Incoming:
                                --Low energy/questionable competitor and below average 3pt shooter Wiggins (and his 33M contract till 2023)
                                --Unknown 19yr old Lamello to run our offence

                                I get that we'd get a lot younger, but I'll pass on that one personally.
                                Same, I'd stick to Masai's current Plan A. I'd rather swing and miss on Giannis than settle for Wiggins.
                                "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

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