The Last Dance

[slaw]

Haven't seen the 6th episode yet.. might tonight.. but the 5th was pretty good. Not as many details about the team as I originally thought they would have. A lot of the stuff I knew.. as I was a die hard fan back in the day. Wouldn't miss a Bulls game in the early 90's. The Portland series wasn't a cake walk. They blew them away in game 1.. but it was actually a 6 game series. Portland was a good team.

My general thoughts so far (through 4 episodes are):

- It's entertaining but it's a fluff piece.
- I don't like how they've turned Krause into the villain because the guy is dead and can't defend himself.
- I'd forgotten how much I disliked Jordan at the time. Outside of Boston teams, there is still no team in my lifetime I wanted to lose more than those 90s Bulls teams.
- Phil Jackson is a very smart man.
- The Bad Boy Pistons are still underrated by the basketball world.
- The NBA is so very different from the late 80s to today.

[Apollo]

I didn't realize that this "documentary"is actually an autobiography/Michael Jordan production. Gotta take some of this with a grain of salt.

[bertarapsfan]

I didn't realize that this "documentary"is actually an autobiography/Michael Jordan production. Gotta take some of this with a grain of salt.

Ya it was billed as a bulls documentery. But it really is a Jordan doc with 1 pippen episode and about half episode dedicated to Rodman so far.
Still good entertainment but its clear it was made to show the younger crowd that are Lebron stans that Jordan is the goat and help cement his legacy

[planetmars]

The doc was mainly finished about 20 years ago.. the biggest stipulation was that the producer's couldn't release it without MJ's final approval. That's what allowed them in the locker rooms in the first place. He finally gave them permission just a year or so ago to finish and release it.

I'm still not sure why MJ was so gun shy about releasing it.. it's pretty much of a love fest for him. He comes across as an asshole a bit, but I think everyone knew he was one. Nothing really controversial IMO.

[G__Deane]

Another thing, why is Toni Kukoc not in the hall of fame? compare his international career to guys like Vlade Divac and Drazen Petrovic who are both in the HOF. He's just as accomplished as those guys. Plus, Kukoc had a very good NBA career. He's a 3x NBA champion and actually one of the best players on that second 3-peat Bulls team.

Marc Gasol is another one. Should be in the HOF once he retired. Exceptional NBA career and International career.

I usually ask the opposite; why are so many weak players in the HoF? Especially on weak induction years where they fell they absolutely must put SOMEONE in .....

[S.R.]

The doc was mainly finished about 20 years ago.. the biggest stipulation was that the producer's couldn't release it without MJ's final approval. That's what allowed them in the locker rooms in the first place. He finally gave them permission just a year or so ago to finish and release it.

I'm still not sure why MJ was so gun shy about releasing it.. it's pretty much of a love fest for him. He comes across as an asshole a bit, but I think everyone knew he was one. Nothing really controversial IMO.

Interesting. Was wondering about the timeline with the inside access.

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[S.R.]

The one knock against Gretzky was that he was small. One hit and he'd be done. Not sure he'd be able to thrive so much in this era. Lot less hitting with some rule changes, but Crosby is much bigger and he's had issues his whole career. Wayne would have a huge bullseye on his head too. And he wouldn't have an enforcer like McSorley have his back.

For sure. The only counter argument, I think, would be that the league has still had small guys succeed since Gretzky. Fleury, Kariya, etc. Johnny Gaudreau would blend in on a peewee team. But the risk would definitely be there, one good knock can end up derailing a career. Longevity may be a problem.

[S.R.]

Re: The Last Dance - what I had forgotten overall was how dysfunctional the relationships had become by the final season. I remember everybody being pissed at Reinsdorf and Krause, I'd totally forgotten Krause announced to the world that Phil Jackson was done. Your defending champs, that ego battle was nuts.

Saw it in one of the newer episodes, first 3 peat and Krause is in the locker room doused in champagne, telling the camera "it's the organization, it's the organization." That guy just wanted the Bulls to be a baseball team. It wasn't the organization, it was Michael Jordan. Sorry. MJ played baseball and the organization couldn't get to the Finals. Krause did good things but he also planted some bad seeds early.

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[Apollo]

Krause traded for Scottie. He saw the potential in Phil and stacked the deck to make sure he made a really good impression to get the assistant job with the Bulls upon blowing his first chance to get with the team. Then later when the time was right he swung the axe after just winning the conference and brought Phil in (what recent Raptors move reminds you of this move?). He also traded for Rodman when he was an absolute toxic mess. That just a few examples, he was a smart dude. He made a lot of great moves and the Bulls would not be who they were without him. There was a good quote in the film a few episodes ago and it went sort of like this: Jerry got far less credit than he should have but wanted far more than he deserved.

Edit: If Masai downplayed Kawhi and Kyle after winning the chip by giving the equipment manager or the security guard on the door or the dude serving hot dogs credit and implying they would have done nothing without him we would all view Masai much differently even though he would have accomplished the same achievement. This was Jerry's problem, he was insecure and it hurt his image because he couldn't shut up.

[The Great One]

So let me get this straight, LeBron made a comment about the kid that got gunned down in Georgia and this fool Whitlock replied that LeBron just want the attention and want to build a brand that's more outspoken than Jordan. Ridiculous. These clowns need to stop using Michael Jordan as a way to make controversy out of every LeBron James tweet.

[Apollo]

[MixxAOR]

People are being too hard on MJ. Yeah he's an asshole but he stayed with the team and he didn't ask management to trade for All-Stars. So he pushed players that he had. People make Lebron this awesome guy to play with and don't mention how he traded young guys for older veterans twice.

[MixxAOR]

I don't wanna hear about Duncan being nice. Pop was enough of asshole for both of them.

[Sonny]

And I thought Kobe was competitive, MJ's mindset was off the charts/on a whole other level.

[slaw]

And I thought Kobe was competitive, MJ's mindset was off the charts/on a whole other level.

What's really interesting to me is that he was able to maintain it for so long. I know a few guys in my industry who are very similar in their mentality and to a man they all burned out relatively young and/or had disastrous personal lives. That he held it all together while being a huge celebrity and kept on winning is pretty incredible.