The Last Dance

[planetmars]

Also, I don't believe Jordans pizza poison game story. I believe it was the hangover game, but he doesnt want that story out.

Still pretty impressive to score 38 and helping win a crucial game 5 (on the road) while being hungover.

[KeonClark]

Still pretty impressive to score 38 and helping win a crucial game 5 (on the road) while being hungover.

Oh forsure impressive, just detracts slightly from the narrative of Professional Business Win At All Costs Man, unlike that lazy Pippen and that wild Rodman

[KeonClark]

Kerr is the head coach of the Warriors and a team that had 73 wins. Most casual fans know who he is because of his ties to GSW. And I mean he was wearing a Warriors shirt as well in the interviews. Kukoc did get some time in episode 4 or 5. He sort of became an afterthought as the Bulls were atrocious once everyone left and he was the lone survivor.

I thought Horace should have gotten more time.. and I'm not sure why Wellington got interviewed and not Longley.

Also it's too bad they couldn't find a Krause family member or someone to vouch for him.

That's because it was an MJ endorsed project. That's why his gambling rumors were dismissed as "silly", no mention of his first wife (he was a serial adulterer not unlike Tiger and Kobe after, but had a good PR team), the hangover game as mentioned...it's why he gets a chance to retort Paytons comments, Isiah comments, Reinsdorf comments on the ipad, etc...the punch to Kerr, he came out looking like a good guy, as well as the barking at teammates stuff didn't seem that bad, when we know it was way worse than what we saw on clips.

But it is what it is, because the documentary would have been nothing close to as good without MJs interviews, and his permission to use the amazing footage they amassed. So I guess the trade off is worth it

According to Adam Silver (now NBA Commissioner, but then the head of NBA Entertainment), Jordan allowed the filming with the agreement that the footage would only be used with his direct permission. After many years, and many refusals from Jordan, he agreed in 2016 to a documentary proposal from Mike Tollin.^[10]

[planetmars]

Oh forsure impressive, just detracts slightly from the narrative of Professional Business Win At All Costs Man, unlike that lazy Pippen and that wild Rodman

Well at the end of the day MJ won. If he lost and it was found out that he was hungover or his gambling/golfing got in the way of a playoff win he deserves to be roasted. Just like if Carter hit that game winner against Philly, nobody would give a sh!t if he went to his graduation ceremony.

It's all about winning.. and that's what MJ accomplished.

[planetmars]

That's because it was an MJ endorsed project. That's why his gambling rumors were dismissed as "silly", no mention of his first wife (he was a serial adulterer not unlike Tiger and Kobe after, but had a good PR team), the hangover game as mentioned...it's why he gets a chance to retort Paytons comments, Isiah comments, Reinsdorf comments on the ipad, etc...the punch to Kerr, he came out looking like a good guy, as well as the barking at teammates stuff didn't seem that bad, when we know it was way worse than what we saw on clips.

But it is what it is, because the documentary would have been nothing close to as good without MJs interviews, and his permission to use the amazing footage they amassed. So I guess the trade off is worth it

Yeah I know the history of the doc.. and he only gave permission after Lebron won in Cleveland against GSW. He's still the GOAT though.

[golden]

Well at the end of the day MJ won. If he lost and it was found out that he was hungover or his gambling/golfing got in the way of a playoff win he deserves to be roasted. Just like if Carter hit that game winner against Philly, nobody would give a sh!t if he went to his graduation ceremony.

It's all about winning.. and that's what MJ accomplished.

Then Bill Russell is the undisputed GOAT.... by a mile. Debate ended.

[Apollo]

Also, I don't believe Jordans pizza poison game story. I believe it was the hangover game, but he doesnt want that story out.

Any evidence?

[planetmars]

Then Bill Russell is the undisputed GOAT.... by a mile. Debate ended.

Sure.. but then there is always context. How many teams were in the league when he was winning?

EDIT - also how many black athletes were he playing against? But he's also the reason why Wilt is not typically considered the GOAT even though he put up some gaudy numbers.

[G__Deane]

Another excuse that I keep reading is how MJ played against a washed up Magic Johnson in the 91 Finals. Which again is not true. I mean, Magic Johnson won the MVP in 1990 but sure he's washed up lol. Magic had to retire in 1991 because of HIV not because he was washed up. And back then people thought HIV was contagious. Karl Malone made a comment back then that he didn't want to play against Magic because he might get the disease.

To be fair, HIV/AIDS IS contagious, just don't drop the soap when you hit the showers....

[G__Deane]

That's probably even more true given that fact that Kareem was a big man with an unmarketable personality, so he didn't get the benefit of the refs to help him out. Similar argument could be made for Duncan... not GOAT status, but that he was seriously under-rated. The NBA has been moving consistently and purposefully towards giving smaller players an advantage to the point where Trey Young will be an MVP candidate at some point. That trend started with MJ.

LOVE Timmy D. That's a pro right there. He's the anti-lebron to me.
Seriously great teammate, didn't seek the camera, soft spoken, no ego, never in trouble off the court to my knowledge. Learned to live with Pop, lebron would have got him fired lol. Duncan, WINNER

[G__Deane]

Dirk in 11, or the Spurs in 14, or even Raptors in 19 had probably the worst "2nd best player" of any champion, so that means Kawhi or Dirk must be GOAT by this measure

I change my mind: LOVE Dirk. That's a pro right there. He's the anti-lebron to me.
Seriously great teammate, didn't seek the camera, soft spoken, no ego, never in trouble off the court to my knowledge. Even put up with Mark Cuban, WINNER

[MixxAOR]

Magic says if Lakers faced Bulls Kareem would win it for them.

Bird also talks how expansion hurt the league and MJ played in diluted league

[The Great One]

Oh god, first Jordan didn't face a superteam in the Finals, then Kareem is the GOAT because he's the all time leading scorer(lol), now we're talking Bill Russell because of his "11 championship" rings? lmao

Players and analysts only put Russell and Wilt on their all time list out of respect. Nobody really believe they're the best.

Facts - There were only 8 teams in the NBA in each of Bill Russell's first five seasons. In his last year in the NBA, there were only 14 teams. Russell's Celtics also had 5+ other Hof'ers on his team and they only had to win TWO series to win the title in most of those seasons. Their ONLY competition was Wilt's team, the rest of the teams were a bunch of JV teams.

[The Great One]

I saw a Wilt stat line the other day - 54 points, 34 rebounds, 24 blocks, 11 assists.

Come on, just use your common sense. You think that's possible in today's game? or even in the 90's or 80s? lol. He was probably being guarded by a 6'5 guy the whole game.

[golden]

Sure.. but then there is always context. How many teams were in the league when he was winning?

EDIT - also how many black athletes were he playing against? But he's also the reason why Wilt is not typically considered the GOAT even though he put up some gaudy numbers.

If you're going to take that tact, then the argument for Lebron is: who were best international players when MJ played, other than Hakeem? Aging Sabonis? Detlef Shrempf? MJ didn't have to face: Giannis, Embiid, Jokic, Siakam, Gasol Bros, Dirk, Simmons, Porzingis, Gobert, Manu, Parker, etc..., etc...

The basketball talent pool is exponentially larger today than when MJ was in his prime. Probably even bigger just in the US alone, let alone adding the explosion in the rest of the world, including Canada.