The Last Dance

[S.R.]

I mean they documentary went out of its way to make sure it had every mis step Pip made. The migrane, the trade requests, waiting to get surgery, sitting down for the last shot.
M.J didnt have to include all those moments but he did, he carefully crafted his story to shine a positive light on him im sure he could have done the same for pip.

I don't know, Pip is also just a different guy who was much more transparent and open in his interviews. Did he deny anything they showed on screen? He supported the whole storyline with his own Q&A. MJ, being MJ, still denies almost any personal weakness. Whatever, he's MJ.

These guys are who they are, as much in this documentary as they were on and off the court in the 90's.

But yeah, The Last Dance is definitely not a Bulls docu-series, it's an MJ docu-series. But isn't that also sort of the point? There were talented people involved in the Bulls dynasty but MJ's ego is absolutely right at the same time - none of it happens without him. None of it. Pippen, Jackson, Rodman, Grant, Kukoc, Krause were all eminently more replaceable than MJ. A dozen guys could fill their roles and MJ could win chips. But in the 90's, there was only one MJ.

[The Great One]

so Horace and Pip are pissed. lol when you are pissing everybody off maybe it's time to look inward. But that's "GOAT tings" i guess

This is the world that we live in lol. This is classic. So Horace Grant speaks out about how he was depicted in the doc and how HE wasn't happy about how Pippen was portrayed. So now the headline: "Horace and Pip are pissed, when you are pissing everybody off maybe it's time to look inward"

Lol

[MixxAOR]

so Horace and Pip are pissed. lol when you are pissing everybody off maybe it's time to look inward. But that's "GOAT tings" i guess

[bertarapsfan]

I don't get any of the "Pippen was treated badly" talk? If anything, the doc showed how all-around dominant he really was, underrated not overrated, how highly thought of he was as a teammate, a guy who overcame dirt poverty and, like everybody else at that level. Heck, MJ gave Pippen the greatest compliment ever to start the doc: "whenever they speak Michael Jordan, they should speak Scottie Pippen" Jordan even said he’d never have won those rings without him.

The first season without MJ they showed how good Pippen was. Also they talked about how Pippen guarding Magic turned series around in the 91 Finals. Phil saying Pippen was 2nd best player in league .

The 1.8 seconds thing? It was a pretty important thing to cover. Pippen sat out in a game winning moment because the ball wasn’t going to him. He was being a cry baby.

Pippen was portrayed pretty fairly in this doc in my opinion. Horace Grant is just stirring shit up as usual. Kukoc is the one who should have a beef because they didn't talk about him at all other than the 92 Olympics. He was one of the Bulls best player in their 2nd 3 peat.

I mean they documentary went out of its way to make sure it had every mis step Pip made. The migrane, the trade requests, waiting to get surgery, sitting down for the last shot.
M.J didnt have to include all those moments but he did, he carefully crafted his story to shine a positive light on him im sure he could have done the same for pip.

[golden]

Ouch.. went below the belt on that one. I don't know. I think the talent level know is on par with the talent in the 90's. Put a list of the top 50 players from both eras together (guys that played against MJ, and the guys that played against Lebron). Sort the list out.. and I would think the list is pretty even in terms of ranking.

There are far more international players that are elite now.. but IMO not as many talented american's as there were in the 90's. Curry/KD/Kawhi/AD/Harden/Dame are the cream of the crop for sure.. but a pretty steep drop after those guys.

lol. Sorry, PM. That cheap shot wasn't directed at you, brotha.

To your point ..... talent is relative. I mean, shouldn't the fact that there are "less talented Americans" today be irrefutable proof that the global talent pool and level of competition is higher today than anything Jordan faced back then? Fact is, there are more talented Americans than ever before, but even with all that talent, they can't achieve the same level of success as old school Americans. This would apply to Jordan too... but somehow doesn't? It's just a simple logic and math argument, that's backed up by the eye test and results.

[Apollo]

[G__Deane]

I don't get any of the "Pippen was treated badly" talk? If anything, the doc showed how all-around dominant he really was, underrated not overrated, how highly thought of he was as a teammate, a guy who overcame dirt poverty and, like everybody else at that level. Heck, MJ gave Pippen the greatest compliment ever to start the doc: "whenever they speak Michael Jordan, they should speak Scottie Pippen" Jordan even said he’d never have won those rings without him.

The first season without MJ they showed how good Pippen was. Also they talked about how Pippen guarding Magic turned series around in the 91 Finals. Phil saying Pippen was 2nd best player in league .

The 1.8 seconds thing? It was a pretty important thing to cover. Pippen sat out in a game winning moment because the ball wasn’t going to him. He was being a cry baby.

Pippen was portrayed pretty fairly in this doc in my opinion. Horace Grant is just stirring shit up as usual. Kukoc is the one who should have a beef because they didn't talk about him at all other than the 92 Olympics. He was one of the Bulls best player in their 2nd 3 peat.

[Apollo]

Grant's views are more relevant than yours, for example. Whatever his motivation he's not wrong that the Last Dance was a less than objective telling of the Bulls' story. The vilification of a dead man who couldn't defend himself was perhaps the most egregious but Pippen and Grant, in particular, certainly have some right to be less than thrilled as to how they were depicted, especially Pippen.

This required MJ's sign off to air and so no sign off, no money. So this essentially is an autobiography. MJ didn't and doesn't like Krause. So is this really about villifying Krause or is this about MJ's opinion of Krause's actions making it into a film? I don't think MJ was out to beat a dead man but Krause is part of the story they're telling. What's he gonna do, pretend the man doesn't exist? Should we burn all history books? Those were written with a slant one way or another and 99% of the people covered negatively can't defend themselves.

[The Great One]

Grant's views are more relevant than yours, for example. Whatever his motivation he's not wrong that the Last Dance was a less than objective telling of the Bulls' story. The vilification of a dead man who couldn't defend himself was perhaps the most egregious but Pippen and Grant, in particular, certainly have some right to be less than thrilled as to how they were depicted, especially Pippen.

I don't get any of the "Pippen was treated badly" talk? If anything, the doc showed how all-around dominant he really was, underrated not overrated, how highly thought of he was as a teammate, a guy who overcame dirt poverty and, like everybody else at that level. Heck, MJ gave Pippen the greatest compliment ever to start the doc: "whenever they speak Michael Jordan, they should speak Scottie Pippen" Jordan even said he’d never have won those rings without him.

The first season without MJ they showed how good Pippen was. Also they talked about how Pippen guarding Magic turned series around in the 91 Finals. Phil saying Pippen was 2nd best player in league .

The 1.8 seconds thing? It was a pretty important thing to cover. Pippen sat out in a game winning moment because the ball wasn’t going to him. He was being a cry baby.

Pippen was portrayed pretty fairly in this doc in my opinion. Horace Grant is just stirring shit up as usual. Kukoc is the one who should have a beef because they didn't talk about him at all other than the 92 Olympics. He was one of the Bulls best player in their 2nd 3 peat.

[planetmars]

There is a theory out there that one of the sources was Phil himself.. and it was a weird motivator tool for the team.

[slaw]

Horace Grant isn't even worth talking about. This is the same guy who ran away when the going got tough/MJ retired. Dude just sounds mad hurt and in his feelings. I mean, the guy has always been resentful of MJ. Sam Smith, the author of the "Jordan Rules" has all but confirmed Horace was the leak. Heck, Horace's own teammates acknowledge he was leaking to the media.

"Let's settle this like men" Lol. It's easy to talk tough on TV or radio, why not say it to his face?

Grant's views are more relevant than yours, for example. Whatever his motivation he's not wrong that the Last Dance was a less than objective telling of the Bulls' story. The vilification of a dead man who couldn't defend himself was perhaps the most egregious but Pippen and Grant, in particular, certainly have some right to be less than thrilled as to how they were depicted, especially Pippen.

[The Great One]

Horace Grant isn't even worth talking about. This is the same guy who ran away when the going got tough/MJ retired. Dude just sounds mad hurt and in his feelings. I mean, the guy has always been resentful of MJ. Sam Smith, the author of the "Jordan Rules" has all but confirmed Horace was the leak. Heck, Horace's own teammates acknowledge he was leaking to the media.

"Let's settle this like men" Lol. It's easy to talk tough on TV or radio, why not say it to his face?

[The Great One]

They do deserve respect. It's hard to say how they would perform against today's talent but they earned the right to be in any conversation about the all time greats. Basketball was almost a different sport back then compared to where it is now. Like comparing tackle football to ultimate frisbee.

They do deserve respect. They were the godfathers of the game. And Wilt has somewhat become like a mythical figure. You can't talk about NBA history without talking about Wilt's numbers. I can't put them in the GOAT conversation though, that's all I'm saying. Both are definitely in my top 10 though.

My top 10:

MJ
LeBron
Bird
Magic
Duncan
Wilt
Russell
Kareem
Olajuwon
Kobe

[slaw]

I mean it is an autobiography disguised as a biography and yeah, no one in the whole thing was really critical against the Messiah.

More like a hagiography.

The pizza story was a small thing but it is so clearly a lie that it calls into question everything else he says in the series. I suspect that guys like Grant and Pippen and perhaps others will have more to say.

[Apollo]