2020 End of Season / Playoffs

[S.R.]

This is an underrated point. KD I'd put in a bit of a separate boat in that OKC had talent and he bailed on it while they still had potential to win something. KD didn't just hurt his legacy though, he potentially robbed NBA history of prime Steph Curry, MVP.

Related - Brooklyn is going to be a shitshow this year. Hear how Kyrie's already talking?

[S.R.]

Those teams were built organically though. Worthy and Magic were drafted by the Lakers. They didn't team up together. Same with Bird and McHale. The 90's Bulls were also built organically. Jordan, Pippen, Kukoc and Grant were all drafted by the Bulls.

The Warriors team before KD was one of the most beloved teams in history. Why? because they were exciting to watch and were built the right way. KD changed everything. KD joining forces with Klay and Curry was the weakest move ever by a superstar. Don't get me started about the Heat.

Yeah, I hear that side of it but I'm not sure if I really care that much if Jerry Reinsdorf or Leborn James put a team together. Kind of, but not really.

I completely dismiss the 'competitive' arguments from guys like MJ, Magic, Bird, etc. Those guys played for organizations that stacked their teams. The 80's Lakers & Celtics had multiple prime HOFers. Those guys had no reason to leave. MJ's prime bulls could win 50+ games without him. Lebron leaves Cleveland and they go straight to the lottery.

Guys like Barkley couldn't win and did get disgruntled and demand trades etc.

The other piece is that Magic/Bird/MJ couldn't do what Lebron can do. Player empowerment has evolved and peaked now. If MJ played in this era and butted heads with Krause/Reinsdorf the same way, does he stay in Chicago for 6 rings? I'd say there's a pretty good chance that guy flips off that front office and puts a team together somewhere else.

There's something appealing about the narrative of organic growth and guys sticking with their teams, for sure. But for the NBA, those eras were the worst for parity. We think it's bad in Toronto now - man if we had a Canadian team in the 80's, can you even imagine? Zero percent chance at a title. None. Zero. Would we love the system then?

[KeonClark]

Those teams were built organically though. Worthy and Magic were drafted by the Lakers. They didn't team up together. Same with Bird and McHale. The 90's Bulls were also built organically. Jordan, Pippen, Kukoc and Grant were all drafted by the Bulls.

The Warriors team before KD was one of the most beloved teams in history. Why? because they were exciting to watch and were built the right way. KD changed everything. KD joining forces with Klay and Curry was the weakest move ever by a superstar. Don't get me started about the Heat.

[The Great One]

Yeah people complain about the Warriors and the Heatles just because the players got themselves together. From a competitive standpoint? The Lakers were in the Finals 8 of 10 years in the 80's, the Celtics were there 5 years, and people loved the 80's. Those teams were stacked.

Those teams were built organically though. Worthy and Magic were drafted by the Lakers. They didn't team up together. Same with Bird and McHale. The 90's Bulls were also built organically. Jordan, Pippen, Kukoc and Grant were all drafted by the Bulls.

The Warriors team before KD was one of the most beloved teams in history. Why? because they were exciting to watch and were built the right way. KD changed everything. KD joining forces with Klay and Curry was the weakest move ever by a superstar. Don't get me started about the Heat.

[slaw]

NBA franchise value and player compensation (salaries & endorsements) have skyrocketed in the last decade. Amazing growth. That's more than just fine.

I thought you were an accountant, slaw.

Nope, not an accountant. I am not sure average franchise value is necessarily indicative of how well the league as whole is doing (see the word, 'average'). And look at what that franchise value jump coincides with....

And that's all I am saying. Whenever the NBA comes up with people who follow the league all I hear is this word cloud of positive stuff but it's a league that has lost ~40% of it tv ratings over a decade living on a 6 year old tv deal signed when no one saw that coming and which deal is set to expire in the near future. And people can downplay whether the China problem and the polticization of the league have/will hurt but I think it's obvious that they have to some extent.

[Rudy Bargnani]

Last Thursday the Dolphins-Jags game got better ratings than the Lakers-Nuggets deciding game. That can’t be good.

[golden]

Maybe, but the tv ratings over the last decade aren't showing it is fine.

NBA franchise value and player compensation (salaries & endorsements) have skyrocketed in the last decade. Amazing growth. That's more than just fine.

I thought you were an accountant, slaw.

[KeonClark]

tv ratings are obsolete though. dinosaur metric

And even if it was true. Saving smart markets is not the solution.

Not true. Live sports is more important and valuable than ever to network TV. NBA gets over 33% of its entire revenue just off of ESPN and TNT.

[KeonClark]

Despite all the superteams, the 2010s had more different NBA champs (7) than the 00s (6), 90s (5) or 80s (4).

That doesn't mean their was parity though, that means the superstars kept switching teams. Switching teams was nearly unheard of in Magic and Birds day. But usually theirs only really 3 teams that matter over the course of multiple years.

The 80s belonged to Magic and Bird and the Pistons, the 90s were Jordan, and Jordan playing baseball (Hakeem thanks you!). The 00s were ruled by Kobe and Duncan, and 3 times an East team built the right chemistry to win 1 title. And last decade, before one last gasp from the old guard of Kobe and Dirk, was the Lebron, Golden State and Kawhi Leonard show.

10- Kobe
11- Dirk
12- Lebron
13- Lebron
14- Kawhi
15- Curry
16- Lebron
17- Curry
18- Curry
19- Kawhi

[planetmars]

Maybe, but the tv ratings over the last decade aren't showing it is fine.

I don't think parity would change that. TV ratings are dreadful in all sports, other than the NFL. And that's primarily only because of gambling.

[MixxAOR]

Maybe, but the tv ratings over the last decade aren't showing it is fine.

tv ratings are obsolete though. dinosaur metric

And even if it was true. Saving smart markets is not the solution.

[slaw]

The NBA is fine the way it is.

Maybe, but the tv ratings over the last decade aren't showing it is fine.

[DanH]

When you sign a contract and accept that as security, you play out your contract. Period.
And yes, you could be traded since that was what you collectively bargained. Nowhere do I see a clause that says "unless you feel you're worth more during term"

So what if the player is performing well below expectations? He still gets paid every dime (unless it's NFL)

Attempting to void a valid contract irks me. It's a separate issue from FA forming super teams.

No player attempts to void a valid contract. They threaten not to play, which would allow the team to void their contract and prevent them from signing elsewhere. The two sides have leverage. Teams just decide to trade players instead of going down that path.

Is your position that players are in indentured servitude because they signed a contract? They should not be allowed to express a desire to be elsewhere and then work with their employer to work out a solution that benefits both parties more than the strict legal alternatives each side has?

Also, what's this nonsense about players trying to get out of contracts to get paid more? Can you quote a single example of this ever happening?

[planetmars]

The NBA is fine the way it is. Players teaming up with other star players is so common place now, that it doesn't matter. Even with that level of collusion, we still ended up winning a championship, primarily because one of those star players wanted to leave their team and got traded to ours.

If players want to play with other superstars that's their right, but it's also not a complete win-win for them. It also hurts their legacies. KD will never be looked at as an all-time great because of his decision. And frankly in my eyes Lebron will never be better than MJ because of his.

[slaw]

Ok you sign a contract and you played it out I can see logic in that but why you bringing up LeBron and Bosh they were free agents. Free agents can decide whatever they want. That's whole point of free agency. Free agents of that level are not waiting for teams to "smartly" pick them. They go where they want

I think there are two separate issues: the free agents lining up to go together to one team and then guys with teams already forcing their way out to stack a competitor. On the first point, I have no sympathy for the owners cause they have crafted a CBA that has imposed so many limits on contracts that teams can't protect against this. So, for example, let's say we live in an alternative world where Bosh is going to Miami and Toronto says, Chris, we will give you a 10 year deal for $350 million. Does Bosh still take a massive discount to play in Miami? I am skeptical. But the owners have in a sense hamstrung themselves in that regard to get other benefits, which means free agents aren't leaving much on the table even if they take discounts.

Guys signing and demanding trades though is a problem because the CBA doesn't contemplate it and it has a disproportionate impact on small market teams. What good is an extra year contract at a higher rate when a guy can sign it and then force is way out? Remember, that construct was included to keep players in the markets that drafted them. I have slightly more sympathy for the owners here though, again, they have so many restrictions on contracts in the CBA to protect them from themselves that you can't blame players for taking advantage of what leverage they do have.

Personally, I do think teams and players should honor contracts and conduct themselves honorably and honestly. And if they want to break those deals should do so professionally and that doesn't always happen. But the players and owners also have a larger obligation to fans because ultimately that is how they make money and it's hard ot believe that guys forcing their way out of cities to go and play for the same 3 or 4 teams is good for the future of the league and the game. Players and owners sometimes seem to forget that.