2020 End of Season / Playoffs

[slaw]

I’m open to moving Lowry if it gives us a head start on a rebuild.

The Raps are constantly rebuilding under the current regime. Raps developed OG, Pascal and FVV while winning a title. Davis is also part of that process.

Toronto will stay competitive, draft and sign undrafted guys to slot into the system and fill in the gaps with short term vet signings while positioning for a trade or big free agency signing.

Just like they’ve been doing for the last 7 years. The greatest stretch of Raps teams ever.

[G__Deane]

Wait, what?
Maybe checking out of all basketball reading for a month or two. Opposite of what Kyle says Pascal should do?

[golden]

So I took a quick look at shampsorts.com/capulator... we won't be able to operate under the cap most likely. Even if we renounce all free agents except for Boucher and VanVleet, and we assume Stanley picks up his option (I can't see why he wouldn't).. that leaves us around $122M in salary including cap holds. The cap is expected to be around $117M.

That leaves us with:

Lowry
VanVleet
Powell
Siakam
OG
McCaw
Stanley
Boucher
Dewan
Matt
Terrence
#29 draft pick
#59 draft pick

That's 11 players, 2 picks and only Boucher at center. No real backup PF since RHJ will be gone too.

We'll have the non-tax payer midlevel (around $9.9M). Plus veteran and minimum contracts to fill out the roster.

If we can't afford to bring back Serge, we'll need to replace him somehow. I think the mid-level goes to that guy. My hope is it's someone like Harry Giles or Aron Baynes if we want a vet. But I think that'll be the focus of free agency this off season.

I could easily envision an Ibaka sign and trade to the Nets where we get back Jarrett Allen and maybe another depth piece.

Baynes is kind of like Gasol light, so I which I think you still need a bruiser to matchup with Embiid.

[Sonny]

Thoughts?

[bertarapsfan]

I could easily envision an Ibaka sign and trade to the Nets where we get back Jarrett Allen and maybe another depth piece.

Baynes is kind of like Gasol light, so I which I think you still need a bruiser to matchup with Embiid.

I like Baynes. He could fill the Gasol role.
Serge has been linked to houston. They are over the cap so maybe we could work out a sign and trade but the only guy i really like from them are covington and House and they play the same position as OG so i dont know if that would be a worthwhile trade. OG needs more development oppurtunitys not less

[planetmars]

I really like the idea of a Serge S&T. He's going to get a lot of looks. Great locker room vet. Has a championship now. Was good during the playoffs in his limited minutes. Houston makes sense for sure if they want someone bigger than 6'8 Covington on their roster. Would love to bring Tucker back but that's doubtful.

[saints91]

The Raps are constantly rebuilding under the current regime. Raps developed OG, Pascal and FVV while winning a title. Davis is also part of that process.

Toronto will stay competitive, draft and sign undrafted guys to slot into the system and fill in the gaps with short term vet signings while positioning for a trade or big free agency signing.

Just like they’ve been doing for the last 7 years. The greatest stretch of Raps teams ever.

The Raptors can do what the Spurs did and hang on to their vets as long as possible, but at some point you have to let go and move on. I'm not suggesting a complete tear down, but I think Gasol, Serg, VV, all could move on. Kyle may want to go too if that's case.

It's silly to say we have been in a rebuild. No, we drafted well, traded well, signed and developed players. That's what this franchise does now, and we will continue to do that. It might just be with different guys, and we may not have as good of results for the next little while.

I don't believe in tanking (I don't think it works unless you are incredibly lucky), but I also don't think you hang on the glory years and jeopardize your future.

[inthepaint]

This is what I'd like to see next year (s) (if the $ works):

Backcourt
Kyle & Fred are both awesome but in many ways they're like the same player. Kyle is better at running the offence and Fred is the better shooter, but at the end of the day they're both classic point-guards. Putting them on the floor at the same time worked many times for us (especially in the regular season), but has really limited our offence against certain matchups (eg Philly last year and Boston this year). They must be the backcourt with the shortest combined wingspan in the NBA, and like it or not, that poses problems. Guards are getting bigger and centres are getting smaller, and everything is converging to your positionless wing player.

They tried to compensate for that by increasing their range - Kyle on game 6 dropped some amazing nukes from really far away and they dropped, and FVV does it all the time, but ultimately, that shouldn't be your standard offence from your guards. We need a classic, lengthy shooting guard to complement Kyle or Fred's game (depending on who's running point), rather than create redundancy with both of them.

In my view, Norm could be that player for next year. He shoots well from 3, has an explosive step to the rim and has the length, hops and a quick realease to put up good shots, as well as being able to get to the rim without being stuffed all the time.

Norm had a great year. Guys on TNT during the game were saying if it wasn't for his injury he would have been in serious consideration for 6th man of the year, and they are right. Norm may opt out of his deal and get a better one elsewhere, but even if that happens, I'd go with TD at shooting guard. To me the depth chart would be:

PG: Lowry, Fred (then flip to Fred - Lowry, when Kyle gets older)
SG: Norm, TD

If we lose one of Lowry/Fred/Norm in the offseason, you slide Thomas in, and you will still have a strong combination of shooting, playmaking, defence and floor spacing out of your 4 guards. You continue to win and develop these guys under Kyle's mentorship, while being ready to pounce if Beal or Oladipo become available in trade or free agency, in which case they'd be the starting shooting guard.

[inthepaint]

Wing
You keep OG, which gotta be the most clear cut off-season decision at this point. He's turning into an outstanding 3 & D player. Very calm and composed mentally, you can stick him to the best player on the opposing team without concern, and he will do his job without complaining, while also averaging double digit scoring, spacing the floor and helping on the glass. It's the kind of player every good team needs on the starting lineup.

Siakam had a toilet of a post-season, which makes a trade tempting, but that's selling low. What we need is to adjust expectations and role. Let's stop trying to fit a square peg on a round hole. Have him return to his normal usage, a 3&D player that's also good a slashing to the rim with his spin moves. For better or worse we tried to turn him into the next Kawhi with ISO midrange fadeways and that back-fired for him and for the team, because he's simply not that player.

Does that make his max deal a problem? Maybe, maybe not, but regardless of the answer you don't sell low. Find someone that can complement his game and take the pressure off him, and there's no reason he can't do for us again what he did in 2019.

The wing position is where we should use our draft picks. Depth chart would look like:

SF: OG/pick
PF: Siakam/pick.

[inthepaint]

Centre
Considering the kind of post-season Gasol had and the fact that he will be getting close to 37 by the time the next post-season rolls around, he will probably be getting the vet minimum either here or elsewhere. It's a harsh reality but he turned into a 1-dimension player this year (with even the defence, his calling card, deteriorating), and strict 1-dimension players are not playable in deep playoff runs. I think he could be a locker room presence type of player, but ultimately teams shouldn't consume meaningful cap space or minutes on locker room vets.

Serge had a great post-season. He shot 48% from 3 vs the Celtics, and 51.1% on the whole post-season, by far the most efficient 3pt shooter on the team. He also led the team in rebounds and blocks, and had the 3rd highest overall +/- (only behind Lowry and Matt Thomas). He was a big help on the glass, scoring inside from offensive boards, from the perimeter, from the post, and, if Nurse hadn't become allergic to pick and rolls, he'd probably be hitting from midrange and from rolls to the basket too. On a team starving for offence, Serge had the most points per minute played. Not to cry over the spllied milk here, but on a close series like this Boston one, a small difference in the minutes split at the C position and we'd be talking about the ECF now instead of the next season.

Serge is also a great locker room guy, who had great positive influence in guys like OG and TD. He's only 30 years old (he's actually closer to Fred's age than he is to Gasol's), has tons of playoff experience, and the passion and vigour you need when the heat turns on in the playoffs.

Out of the Centre list that planetmars posted a few posts back, Ibaka is probably the most well rounded Centre (aside from Millsap, Harrel and maybe Olynik). He will be coveted in the offseason. He knows our system and I think he could continue to be a great help to the Raptors, but I'm also of the opinion that in today's NBA you shouldn't spend much on Centres in general (unless you're Embiid, Jokic, KAT, these type of players).

So ultimately, I think it will depend on the outside market and what we can afford to pay for Serge. If we can keep him at cost that doesn't interfere with team building on the guard & wing position, you go for it. If not, you part ways and pursue a guy like Christian Wood or Baynes and try to have Boucher or Hernandez become workable backup C's.

[S.R.]

fwiw I don't think they adjust anything with Siakam, they give him more time and he'll have all next season to have another crack at growing into a #1 guy role.

What happens after that will largely depend on 2021 offseason. If a higher tier player comes in then Siakam naturally falls into the #2 spot. But if that doesn't happen or Siakam takes another step next year - the chance that Siakam actually continues to get better is still very much in play. They're not capping expectations at this point.

[The Great One]

This. This. This.

[DogeLover1234]

fwiw I don't think they adjust anything with Siakam, they give him more time and he'll have all next season to have another crack at growing into a #1 guy role.

What happens after that will largely depend on 2021 offseason. If a higher tier player comes in then Siakam naturally falls into the #2 spot. But if that doesn't happen or Siakam takes another step next year - the chance that Siakam actually continues to get better is still very much in play. They're not capping expectations at this point.

Yeah I think Siakam showed the development we expected coming into the year, we just wanted more as the season went on. To me that was the series that motivates Pascal to become a monster cause of how hard he got smashed. Its a huge bummer that he wasnt ready this year but I really dont think his long term potential is in doubt.

[G__Deane]

Thoughts?

All time?

Nahhhhhhhhhhh.... not yet

[inthepaint]

Yeah I think Siakam showed the development we expected coming into the year, we just wanted more as the season went on. To me that was the series that motivates Pascal to become a monster cause of how hard he got smashed. Its a huge bummer that he wasnt ready this year but I really dont think his long term potential is in doubt.

Yeah when I say adjust expectation and role, it don't mean accepting the fact he hit a permanent wall and this is who he is and will be.

We should continue to promote his development, but also with the understanding that for some time (and maybe ever) he might not be suitable to be the tight-handle ISO midrange monster able to break set defences at will that we're all demanding him to be. We gotta (a) have a contingency plan to continue to look for said guy, and (b) continue to challenge Pascal but also putting him in a position to succeed.

That may involve running some plays for the poor guy once in a while (like putting the man on simple pick&Rolls for a change), rather than simply saying "hey, you're the 'main guy' now, you gotta fend for yourself out there and get us buckets". Siakam has to own how he played, that's an important part of his growth process, but there's something to be said about the way they used him tactically too. It didn't help.