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2020 End of Season / Playoffs

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  • also if frank or whoever runs the clippers wins EOY that's a huge joke. that team is so fucked for so far in the future it's unbelievable.

    EOY in general is a joke of an award because it awards short term success over long term, when the best executives balance both. like ours!
    Last edited by chris; Sat Jul 18, 2020, 08:46 PM.

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    • chris wrote: View Post
      also if frank or whoever runs the clippers runs EOY that's a huge joke. that team is so fucked for so far in the future it's unbelievable.

      EOY in general is a joke of an award because it awards short term success over long term, when the best executives balance both. like ours!
      Yeah it's a hard thing to give an annual award to. But there are three times a GM/President makes their mark in a given season: Draft, Free Agency and the Trade Deadline.

      Clippers won free agency by nabbing Kawhi, and trading for George (despite giving up all the picks). You could say they won the deadline too by getting maybe the best available player in Marcus Morris (although was technically second after D'Angelo Russell). At least they were active.

      They moved up from the 8th seed in the West to the 2nd seed (although a lot of that has to do with Kawhi)..

      The draft was a bit underwhelming in terms of anyone really winning it besides New Orleans getting the luck of the draw so that whole thing is moot.

      I could see Presti getting some recognition for keeping his team in playoff contention despite losing George and Westbrook. But nabbing all those picks too with Shai. And I"m sure he'll get some love.

      Masai is great.. and should have won last season (over Horst). But he sort of sat on his hands this season. Not that it was a bad thing to do (we had the third best record in the NBA before the shut down). But if you're judging an executive team for what they accomplished in the year, it's hard to vote for Masai.

      I do agree.. they should really consider a 2-3 year window before judging, but they want to do an annual thing. It's been awarded since the early 70's.


      Masai's only win was with Denver. He should really have 2 or 3 at this point. Buford only has 2 as well which is a joke.

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      • planetmars wrote: View Post

        Yeah it's a hard thing to give an annual award to. But there are three times a GM/President makes their mark in a given season: Draft, Free Agency and the Trade Deadline.

        Clippers won free agency by nabbing Kawhi, and trading for George (despite giving up all the picks). You could say they won the deadline too by getting maybe the best available player in Marcus Morris (although was technically second after D'Angelo Russell). At least they were active.

        They moved up from the 8th seed in the West to the 2nd seed (although a lot of that has to do with Kawhi)..

        The draft was a bit underwhelming in terms of anyone really winning it besides New Orleans getting the luck of the draw so that whole thing is moot.

        I could see Presti getting some recognition for keeping his team in playoff contention despite losing George and Westbrook. But nabbing all those picks too with Shai. And I"m sure he'll get some love.

        Masai is great.. and should have won last season (over Horst). But he sort of sat on his hands this season. Not that it was a bad thing to do (we had the third best record in the NBA before the shut down). But if you're judging an executive team for what they accomplished in the year, it's hard to vote for Masai.

        I do agree.. they should really consider a 2-3 year window before judging, but they want to do an annual thing. It's been awarded since the early 70's.


        Masai's only win was with Denver. He should really have 2 or 3 at this point. Buford only has 2 as well which is a joke.
        totally understand the reasoning i just think it's inherently dumb to award it on an annual basis.

        presti is a great call though, that's absolutely who i'd vote for. got a young potential franchise player out of the deal and more picks and future flexibility than any other team in the league.

        how much better are the clippers with PG rather than shai? in a vacuum, i'd rather have shai going forward considering age, salary, trajectory, and injury history. and the clippers gave up five first round picks (four unprotected), a second, and two pick swaps. i think they only have one of their own pick once through 2027? it's bonkers. it's irresponsible. it puts billy king to shame.

        like i get they had to do it (or they thought they had to - who knows what would have happened if they played hard ball with presti) to get kawhi, but there's no way i would have done that deal.

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        • An annual EOY should be based on a full calendar year, not just regular season. This should be pretty obvious. How TF can a guy achieve the ultimate success for an executive and not even be a finalist for EOY? And Horst gets EOY and he inherited Giannis? A complete joke.

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          • planetmars wrote: View Post
            EOY is probably going to go to the Clipper guy unfortunately.
            Not so sure.... Have to think that around the league there are more than a few teams execs who are more than just a little pissed at the couched tampering campaign waged by the Clips this past offseason. I still think its those guys who vote for EOY.

            Regardless ....I'm with you on pumping the tires of Presti in OKC who all of a sudden has a playoff team, a solid younger core, a bazillion draft picks and cap space.....and though we are biased Ujiri has posted yet another 4.0 GPA for his work this year putting together a contender level title defense when most thought the Raps wouldn't even make the post season.
            Right Dennis 3D Scott ?.

            EDIT

            MVP - The Alphabet
            COY - Nick Nurse
            ROY - Ja Morant
            DPOY - The Alphabet by a pube over Anthony Davis
            MIP - Ingram... Hes an RFA this year... and he would look great in purple at the ACC. Imagine having to deal with both he and Pascal all night long.
            6MY - Sweet Lou....
            Last edited by Demographic Shift; Sat Jul 18, 2020, 10:36 PM. Reason: Forgot to add my always 100% correct predictions on who wins what this year. Its a close race in most categories save for ROY.
            Canadas election mantra #Dump the Chump

            Comment


            • Yeah, EOY is really a combination of "big move award" + "team turn around award" + "that team exceeded expectations award."

              The two LA teams have "big move award" cases to make, OKC is some combination of team turnaround/exceeded expectations, Bucks are an exceeded expectations even though they were well positioned to begin with, they tweaked the roster and really dominated at a new level.

              But none of those angles reward long term excellence coming to fruition, like the way the Raptors set up their development program and reaped the rewards in a non-flashy but very important way. Same way RC Buford and Pops didn't win nearly as many awards as they should have while the Duncan Spurs dominated, that team made significant changes over the years and sustained a high level of excellence, but rarely checked the right boxes for these awards.

              COY is also usually a team turnaround/exceeded expectations award. That's how Casey got his.
              "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

              Comment


              • S.R. wrote: View Post
                Yeah, EOY is really a combination of "big move award" + "team turn around award" + "that team exceeded expectations award."

                The two LA teams have "big move award" cases to make, OKC is some combination of team turnaround/exceeded expectations, Bucks are an exceeded expectations even though they were well positioned to begin with, they tweaked the roster and really dominated at a new level.

                But none of those angles reward long term excellence coming to fruition, like the way the Raptors set up their development program and reaped the rewards in a non-flashy but very important way. Same way RC Buford and Pops didn't win nearly as many awards as they should have while the Duncan Spurs dominated, that team made significant changes over the years and sustained a high level of excellence, but rarely checked the right boxes for these awards.

                COY is also usually a team turnaround/exceeded expectations award. That's how Casey got his.
                EOY doesn’t even have to be “sustained excellence“. Masai won a championship, ffs. And it was the direct result of ballsy trades. And somehow that counts for nothing, last year or this year? That’s the one single thing that every executive wants.... and Masai got it. Not sure why EOY can’t be voted on after the playoffs, but that’s the obvious fix.

                Comment


                • S.R. wrote: View Post
                  Yeah, EOY is really a combination of "big move award" + "team turn around award" + "that team exceeded expectations award."

                  The two LA teams have "big move award" cases to make, OKC is some combination of team turnaround/exceeded expectations, Bucks are an exceeded expectations even though they were well positioned to begin with, they tweaked the roster and really dominated at a new level.

                  But none of those angles reward long term excellence coming to fruition, like the way the Raptors set up their development program and reaped the rewards in a non-flashy but very important way. Same way RC Buford and Pops didn't win nearly as many awards as they should have while the Duncan Spurs dominated, that team made significant changes over the years and sustained a high level of excellence, but rarely checked the right boxes for these awards.

                  COY is also usually a team turnaround/exceeded expectations award. That's how Casey got his.
                  Well put...

                  So ........who ya got ?

                  MVP
                  COY
                  ROY
                  DPOY
                  MIP
                  6MY -
                  Canadas election mantra #Dump the Chump

                  Comment


                  • golden wrote: View Post

                    EOY doesn’t even have to be “sustained excellence“. Masai won a championship, ffs. And it was the direct result of ballsy trades. And somehow that counts for nothing, last year or this year? That’s the one single thing that every executive wants.... and Masai got it. Not sure why EOY can’t be voted on after the playoffs, but that’s the obvious fix.
                    Totally agree, Masai not winning last year was a crime. I'd like all the awards to be post-playoffs. Some lottery team players might still win, but playoff success should be taken into account. Isn't that what the whole thing's about?

                    ​​​​​
                    "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

                    Comment


                    • Demographic Shift wrote: View Post

                      Well put...

                      So ........who ya got ?

                      MVP
                      COY
                      ROY
                      DPOY
                      MIP
                      6MY -
                      I'm going to homer this a bit, but I think a fair case can be made for both Masai and Nurse as EOY and COY. We can see Masai's built a great team that wasn't just the Kawhi move (a championship move) and that Nurse can really coach.

                      MVP - Giannis
                      ROY - Ja (Zion missed too many games)
                      DPOY - Probably Giannis but AD has a real shot
                      MIP - Bam (literally jumped from bench player to All Star)
                      SMOY - Lou Williams
                      "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

                      Comment


                      • S.R. wrote: View Post

                        Totally agree, Masai not winning last year was a crime. I'd like all the awards to be post-playoffs. Some lottery team players might still win, but playoff success should be taken into account. Isn't that what the whole thing's about?

                        ​​​​​
                        Yeah, this whole generation of fans and players are all about championship or bust, so the awards should probably reflect that.

                        Comment


                        • I like Ujiri for the EOY this year or any year. .

                          Heres why. I once worked with a guy who was seriously butting heads with a specific senior manager in the company and kinda figured he was going to take two behind the left ear. So he says he went to a friend in HR and asked her who was the most ruthless rat bastard employment lawyer she ever had to deal with and never wanted to be across the table from. She gave him a name.

                          To me.. that name transferred to the NBA would be Masai. Not because he is a ruthless rat bastard but because he is that guy who always seems to come out ahead.
                          • Not very many folks leave the Raps with a bad taste in their mouths. Players, assistant coaches, trainers, marketing people, just about everyone. (save for Case but at 35M over 5 years he'll get over it.)
                          • There isn't any overt grumping from the players on salary negotiations or public spats over it. .
                          • Other than Bruno he doesn't seem to miss on talent evaluation. Pascal, Freddy, Norm, OG and maybe Davis are all well documented finds way outside of the lottery..
                          • And those trades. He picked up Leonard / Green and Gasol in one year and didn't gut his on court team or lose all his draft collateral .
                          • He built a European Soccer style concept where there was the big team and the development team where the same schemes are played so when you get your shot with the varsity your not learning the playbook.
                          • He always seems to have a good succession plan for players.
                          • He listens. A lot.

                          Ujiri isn't that ruthless rat bastard but he sure is the guy you don't want to have drafting a pick or two ahead of you or talking to your U or RFA's. He is that good. I'd give him the sustained excellence EOY this year in a New York minute.
                          Last edited by Demographic Shift; Sat Jul 18, 2020, 11:38 PM.
                          Canadas election mantra #Dump the Chump

                          Comment


                          • "you don't want to have drafting a pick or two ahead of you or talking to your U or RFA's."

                            Agreed on almost every point except one: In Toronto, Masai has yet to show he can land a big ticket in FA .... and another chip
                            -Literally all he has left to do, make someone choose to come here.

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                            • Generally agree with others on the awards - the only real fun ones are MIP and EOY.

                              Like Bam for MIP but wouldnt mind Sabonis, Tatum or Ingram either. Bam is just too fun to watch though so he wins it in the end.

                              EOY is toughest for me - dont want to reward the Clips or Lakers for the best players in the world wanting to move to LA, but I have some trouble giving it to Masai for knowing when to hold em. Id kind of prefer to give it to the guy in Indy (Pritchard?) or Riley in Miami. Both aced all their moves imo

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                              • Is Ben Simmons the most overrated player in the NBA right now? ESPN calling him a superstar/top 10 player? he's been in the league for 4 years now and he still can't shoot. I've always wondered about these guys, shooting is by far the EASIEST skill to develop in basketball. DeRozan has been in the league for 11 years now and he still can't shoot. I'm not even talking about creating 3's off the dribble, just shoot 3's when you're wide open and guys like Simmons and DeRozan can't even do that. And in Simmons case, if you watch him play, he'll pass up a wide open 15 foot jump shot.

                                If Ben Simmons is a superstar then Pascal Siakam is Michael Jordan.
                                Mamba Mentality

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