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Knicks>Raptors? Ryan Ruocco thinks so!

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  • #76
    Melo also plays a very important defensive position SF but doesn't defend. This is why he is a bad defensive player. Good SF are two way players or at least good on defense. This is why Melo is a PF now.

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    • #77
      Mindlessness wrote: View Post
      Dude, you are the one who told me to go check YouTube clips of him playing defense, it's in this very thread.

      Those "random" stats aren't "random". They're calculated. They have no opinion on the matter. They simply measure whose good at shit and who isn't, because humans are prone to bias, they are ALWAYS prone to bias, and we can't trust them to make good judgements from simply watching the tape, they may learn what's good and bad, but they'll always be bias, and never perfect. With stats, you at least have bias out of the way.

      I'd really want you to learn about these stats before you call me out for being an "idiot who knows nothing" or some other insult. And I'd rather this argument not fall into that insult cycle. But I digress.
      I said check the tapes, as in, watch games of basketball, not YouTube clips showing 15 seconds of effort in a 48 minute game.

      Here's a nice easy stat for you then, Melo's man shot 45.8% from the field against him. That's worse than Demar (not known as a particularly good defender) and worse than Raymond "don't call me fat cause I carry firearms" Felton last season. Are you going to tell me that Felton is a good defender too?
      Heir, Prince of Cambridge

      If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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      • #78
        raptors999 wrote: View Post
        Melo also plays a very important defensive position SF but doesn't defend. This is why he is a bad defensive player. Good SF are two way players or at least good on defense. This is why Melo is a PF now.
        Well, he's actually decent at defending PF's, specifically post-ups. I know he's not that great off the ball (not a good help defender), but give him credit for being a great on-the-ball defender.

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        • #79
          Axel wrote: View Post
          I said check the tapes, as in, watch games of basketball, not YouTube clips showing 15 seconds of effort in a 48 minute game.

          Here's a nice easy stat for you then, Melo's man shot 45.8% from the field against him. That's worse than Demar (not known as a particularly good defender) and worse than Raymond "don't call me fat cause I carry firearms" Felton last season. Are you going to tell me that Felton is a good defender too?
          Carmelo Anthony played 62% of his minutes vs. a PF. PF's shoot around 50% from the field. (and if you adjust for guys like Kevin Love who shoot threes, they shoot around 51%) Carmelo is actually above average! But adjust for his other 38% at SF, and he is slightly above average.

          Wow.
          Last edited by Mindlessness; Wed Jul 23, 2014, 09:32 PM.

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          • #80
            Mindlessness wrote: View Post
            Carmelo Anthony played 62% of his minutes vs. a PF. PF's shoot around 50% from the field. Carmelo is actually above average! But adjust for his other 38% at SF, and he is slightly above average.

            Wow.
            Carlos Boozer had a better rate, is he a great defender too? Enes Kantner is right there, a guy who lost minutes to Marvin Williams last year cause his D was so bad.

            How's this for Wow, Bargnani was better than Melo at forcing his man to miss!!!!! If Melo is a good one on one defender like you claim, then these stats are going right against that "strength".
            Heir, Prince of Cambridge

            If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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            • #81
              The lesson here is defensive metrics are terrible. They're lagging far behind offensive ones in terms of matching up with the eye test.

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              • #82
                white men can't jump wrote: View Post
                The lesson here is defensive metrics are terrible. They're lagging far behind offensive ones in terms of matching up with the eye test.
                ;(

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                • #83
                  white men can't jump wrote: View Post
                  The lesson here is defensive metrics are terrible. They're lagging far behind offensive ones in terms of matching up with the eye test.
                  I don't know - dxRAPM seems pretty solid. Top 5 players at each position (20+ MPG):

                  C - Garnett, Sanders, M Gasol, Bogut, Howard
                  PF - Duncan, NeNe, Gibson, Ibaka, Aldridge
                  SF - Iggy, Draymond Green, Pierce, George, Wallace
                  SG - Danny Green, Tony Allen, Vince Carter, Shumpert, Sefolosha
                  PG - Bledsoe, Rubio, Holiday, Paul, Wolters (6th is Beverley, 7th is Bradley)

                  Rock solid defenders all.

                  Melo ranks 55th of 75 SF's. And 290th overall.
                  twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                  • #84
                    DanH wrote: View Post
                    I don't know - dxRAPM seems pretty solid. Top 5 players at each position (20+ MPG):

                    C - Garnett, Sanders, M Gasol, Bogut, Howard
                    PF - Duncan, NeNe, Gibson, Ibaka, Aldridge
                    SF - Iggy, Draymond Green, Pierce, George, Wallace
                    SG - Danny Green, Tony Allen, Vince Carter, Shumpert, Sefolosha
                    PG - Bledsoe, Rubio, Holiday, Paul, Wolters (6th is Beverley, 7th is Bradley)

                    Rock solid defenders all.

                    Melo ranks 55th of 75 SF's. And 290th overall.
                    Is that career? Last season?

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                    • #85
                      DanH wrote: View Post
                      I don't know - dxRAPM seems pretty solid. Top 5 players at each position (20+ MPG):

                      C - Garnett, Sanders, M Gasol, Bogut, Howard
                      PF - Duncan, NeNe, Gibson, Ibaka, Aldridge
                      SF - Iggy, Draymond Green, Pierce, George, Wallace
                      SG - Danny Green, Tony Allen, Vince Carter, Shumpert, Sefolosha
                      PG - Bledsoe, Rubio, Holiday, Paul, Wolters (6th is Beverley, 7th is Bradley)

                      Rock solid defenders all.

                      Melo ranks 55th of 75 SF's. And 290th overall.
                      Honestly surprised to see Rubio ranked 2nd for PGs.
                      Heir, Prince of Cambridge

                      If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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                      • #86
                        white men can't jump wrote: View Post
                        Is that career? Last season?
                        Last season.
                        twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                        • #87
                          DanH wrote: View Post
                          I don't know - dxRAPM seems pretty solid. Top 5 players at each position (20+ MPG):

                          C - Garnett, Sanders, M Gasol, Bogut, Howard
                          PF - Duncan, NeNe, Gibson, Ibaka, Aldridge
                          SF - Iggy, Draymond Green, Pierce, George, Wallace
                          SG - Danny Green, Tony Allen, Vince Carter, Shumpert, Sefolosha
                          PG - Bledsoe, Rubio, Holiday, Paul, Wolters (6th is Beverley, 7th is Bradley)

                          Rock solid defenders all.

                          Melo ranks 55th of 75 SF's. And 290th overall.
                          Fair enough.

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                          • #88
                            DanH wrote: View Post
                            Last season.
                            It looks decent...but there are some things that make me raise my eyebrow a bit. Nothing crazy, just hard to believe certain guys are that high.

                            Garnett is a bit surprising...he looked terrible last year, but I guess he was probably still the Nets best defensive big (Plumlee would be if he was consistent I think). Still, in no world would I count Garnett as a top 5 defensive C last year. Pierce is very surprising...the guy has never really been better than average as a defender. He also played at PF for a lot of last year.

                            Carter has been fairly solid in recent years as a bench guy. Better than he was for much of the middle of his career as a starting playing heavy minutes, but still surprised he's that high.

                            That's about all. Aldridge and Nene are a bit surprising, but they're both very solid...just a bit surprised they're that high. And I can't pretend I know anything about Wolters since even when Milly played Toronto it was hard to really pay attention. Still his presence is surprising.

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                            • #89
                              I honestly think Melo is a good defensive player when he tries.


                              -- Charles Barkley

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                              • #90
                                torch19 wrote: View Post
                                I honestly think Melo is a good defensive player when he tries.
                                He is but those night when he puts forth any effort is becoming rarer and rarer and his level of disinterest is getting lower.

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