Vince Carter's Retirement

[Apollo]

Ya and they very well could be in by the time vince comes around. Pau is guaranteed 1st ballot so that leaves 3 spots, they usually do some random old timer if the class isnt stacked so it will likely come down to vince vs someone from the early 2000s.

Thinking about it T-Mac was 1st ballot i think T-Mac ended up having a better career then Vince which you would not have thought would be the case based on the early days.

They had a shot at a chip the year they lost the game seven if TMac came back.

[KeonClark]

And Bruce Bowen could have been Kobe if he had the athleticism and natural scoring abilities of Vince Carter.

I suppose...then again, so could Joe lunchpail at the Pittsburgh steel factory. Hes a hard workin' fella, just cant hit a jumper.

But work ethic can he taught and developed. It's partly a choice. God given talent is basically decided as soon as your mama and papi make sweet sweet love.

[Apollo]

I suppose...then again, so could Joe lunchpail at the Pittsburgh steel factory. Hes a hard workin' fella, just cant hit a jumper.

But work ethic can he taught and developed. It's partly a choice. God given talent is basically decided as soon as your mama and papi make sweet sweet love.

My point is that mental fortitude, work ethic, and desire are one full side of the coin. There have been many highly talented players who've come and gone without living up to the hype. Those three things are not common things when it comes to elite levels like MJ, Kobe, LeBron, etc. It can be the difference between a Vince Carter missing a final shot in a game seven against Philly that should have never been that close and a Kawhi Leonard hitting the shot in a game they possibly didn't deserve to win.

As for Bruce, he played important minutes on championship teams while taking on tough assignments doing the blue collar, underappreciated stuff that wins games but hurts and doesn't get enough credit in some cases.

[G__Deane]

1. After this season is officially over do you think the Raptors will offer him a one day deal so he can retire as a Raptor? If they do offer it, do you think he will accept?

Before the Chip, I'd say there was 100% chance the Raps would either bring him back for a playoff or the one day thing in retirement since they seemed to be dying for some sort of fake nostalgia to "the good old days" for some reason. Talk of actually having him come back to take a roster spot was ridiculous.

2. Do you think he deserves to be honored by the Raptors in some way for his years of service? If so, what does that look like?

I think he's had all the fan and media fawning that he deserves. He's had the video, the standing O, the little tear and sideline spinorama. I really don't get the jersey retirement thing at all. And a statue? Please...get in line behind Lowry, Masai and Kawhi (no to him too)

3. Do you think he gets into the Hall right away or am I presuming too much with my question?
In a very weak draft year, yes. He's be a feel good story for the NBA over a player like CWeb
Should he be first ballot, hell no.

The guy was an electrifying player for a year, won a freaking dunk contest (One of the few things he ever won) and made it exciting in Toronto for a few years before quitting on the team and moving on as a professional journey man cheque collector. Man, the bar is low ....

[Apollo]

1. After this season is officially over do you think the Raptors will offer him a one day deal so he can retire as a Raptor? If they do offer it, do you think he will accept?

Before the Chip, I'd say there was 100% chance the Raps would either bring him back for a playoff or the one day thing in retirement since they seemed to be dying for some sort of fake nostalgia to "the good old days" for some reason. Talk of actually having him come back to take a roster spot was ridiculous.

2. Do you think he deserves to be honored by the Raptors in some way for his years of service? If so, what does that look like?

I think he's had all the fan and media fawning that he deserves. He's had the video, the standing O, the little tear and sideline spinorama. I really don't get the jersey retirement thing at all. And a statue? Please...get in line behind Lowry, Masai and Kawhi (no to him too)

3. Do you think he gets into the Hall right away or am I presuming too much with my question?
In a very weak draft year, yes. He's be a feel good story for the NBA over a player like CWeb
Should he be first ballot, hell no.

The guy was an electrifying player for a year, won a freaking dunk contest (One of the few things he ever won) and made it exciting in Toronto for a few years before quitting on the team and moving on as a professional journey man cheque collector. Man, the bar is low ....

The eight all star games and 19th all time scoring doesn't do it for you.

[G__Deane]

The eight all star games and 19th all time scoring doesn't do it for you.

Eight all star game, how many voted in by adoring fan boys, it's ultimately a popularity contest and NAB money maker. Do you need me to list AS players who were borderline?
Kobe Bryant was voted in despite playing only 6 games one year (2014?) and under 14PPG
Magic topped that by not even playing in 91 and was voted in
Julius Irving made it with 15 PPG and 4.5 REB based only on end-of-the-career popularity.
Yao Ming hadn't even played during the 2009 season, then he suited up in only five games (10 PPG) at the beginning of the 2010-11 campaign before being voted into the AS game where fans knew he didn't have a chance of playing (Asian voting)
Then there's Allen Iverson, at least once or twice when 10-15 players had better stats.
Never mind Wince played in the Eastern Conference, enough said.

Using AS selections is about the weakest argument you could make lol

And 19th all time scoring? Seriously, it took him 50 years!

[chris]

Eight all star game, how many voted in by adoring fan boys, it's ultimately a popularity contest and NAB money maker. Do you need me to list AS players who were borderline?
Kobe Bryant was voted in despite playing only 6 games one year (2014?) and under 14PPG
Magic topped that by not even playing in 91 and was voted in
Julius Irving made it with 15 PPG and 4.5 REB based only on end-of-the-career popularity.
Yao Ming hadn't even played during the 2009 season, then he suited up in only five games (10 PPG) at the beginning of the 2010-11 campaign before being voted into the AS game where fans knew he didn't have a chance of playing (Asian voting)
Then there's Allen Iverson, at least once or twice when 10-15 players had better stats.
Never mind Wince played in the Eastern Conference, enough said.

Using AS selections is about the weakest argument you could make lol

And 19th all time scoring? Seriously, it took him 50 years!

i'm no vince fanboy or anything and there have certainly been many players voted in that never deserved it, but y which one of his 8 appearances is he not an all star in the eastern conference? if anything he could have made 9 or 10.

three pistons made it in 2008 in a classic kyle korver/jeff teague gotta-reward-winning vote. rashard lewis in 2009. i think that type of thing tends to happen more than completely undeserving players getting voted in. in most cases those players might not deserve to start, but they usually belong on the team.

[KeonClark]

i'm no vince fanboy or anything and there have certainly been many players voted in that never deserved it, but y which one of his 8 appearances is he not an all star in the eastern conference? if anything he could have made 9 or 10.

three pistons made it in 2008 in a classic kyle korver/jeff teague gotta-reward-winning vote. rashard lewis in 2009. i think that type of thing tends to happen more than completely undeserving players getting voted in. in most cases those players might not deserve to start, but they usually belong on the team.

Nba all stars is actually a good representation of the 12 best (offensive) guys in a given year. Sure theres some snubs but that's the nature of the beast. The MLB and NHL selections are a mess in comparison, with each team having to meet a certain requirement etc you get some really odd choices.

[G__Deane]

Not going to go back and forth on this any longer, there's no point.
Everyone knows my feelings about quitter-Carter. He was over rated in Toronto for a City starving for acceptance and heroes and if not for a dunk contest, he accomplished absolutely squat except hanging on. Might as well quote how many All-Star points per game someone dropped

Ain't nobody changin' anybody's minds.

[Apollo]

And 19th all time scoring? Seriously, it took him 50 years!

You can look at it another way. How many players could last as long as Vince Carter did? The answer is not a single one. If he doesn't make it he would be the only player snubbed by the hall of fame who was a top 20 scorer at the time of retirement. Seems highly unlikely that he gets snubbed.

As for the all-star game being a popularity contest, yeah. So is the hall inductions, its why Dennis Rodman had to wait 12 years. Deal with it.

[G__Deane]

You can look at it another way. How many players could last as long as Vince Carter did? The answer is not a single one. If he doesn't make it he would be the only player snubbed by the hall of fame who was a top 20 scorer at the time of retirement. Seems highly unlikely that he gets snubbed.

As for the all-star game being a popularity contest, yeah. So is the hall inductions, its why Dennis Rodman had to wait 12 years. Deal with it.

Longevity/journeyman should have ziltch to do with a HOF induction. Should everyone get in who plays 15 years?
And once AGAIN, stop trying to put words in my mouth; Who said he should be "snubbed"?

My exact quote was:
"In a very weak draft year, yes" (to the question of do you think he gets in right away). "He'd be a feel good story for the NBA over a player like CWeb
Should he be first ballot, hell no."

[Apollo]

Longevity/journeyman should have ziltch to do with a HOF induction. Should everyone get in who plays 15 years?
And once AGAIN, stop trying to put words in my mouth; Who said he should be "snubbed"?

My exact quote was:
"In a very weak draft year, yes" (to the question of do you think he gets in right away). "He'd be a feel good story for the NBA over a player like CWeb
Should he be first ballot, hell no."

I thought you were done. I'm confused, the announcement was released and now you've unretired from the conversation? Were you playing baseball? Didn't go too well?

[G__Deane]

Correcting your misinformation doesn't count

[Apollo]

The way you're talking, you didn't sound like someone who thinks he should get in. You don't value the scoring totals and you don't value longevity, which incidentally is a primary reason why some do not make the hall.

[MixxAOR]

Derrick Rose won MVP something that Vince Carter never did. But VC is guaranteed to be in Hall of Fame and Derrick Rose? Meh prolly not