Vince Carter's Retirement

[G__Deane]

International representation. Compare Canada to every other country outside the US. Stellar.

And look, I LOVE Steve Nash, but c’mon. How many of this generation’s black Canadian NBA kids, other than RJ Barrett, talk about being inspired to play by Nash?

Fair enough, but although getting better, I just don't think of the NBA as an international league. No matter you how you slice it, fans saying "look at the impact Vince had on Canadian NBA players" is ridiculous. I'd buy he got a lot of kids hooping which is great but still far more playing hockey and soccer.

I must have missed something.
Who ever made the argument that Vince only inspired black youth to hoop?

But that's the point, I don't think Nash, Vince or ANY player inspired that many NBA players from Canada, if that's what we're talking about. And the numbers back that up.

Did he inspire more kids to play pickup at the local court or their YMCA? Sure .... retire his number for that

[G__Deane]

When it comes to retiring numbers and other honors the Raptors should look at what the most successful and respected franchises have done. The standard should be no lower than that. It's better the have the lone championship banner up there all by itself than have retired numbers of guys who matter less and less to the franchise's history as it ages and achieves more and more.

I only have one name I would put forth for certain right now: Kyle Lowry.

After that I am unsure. Emotion shouldn't play a factor. It should come down to individual, team and community achievements. Objectively looking at what Vince Carter achieved in Toronto, does that look like greatness? If so, how long was that greatness sustained. Now compare that to the numbers hanging in Staples and the Garden. Consider how long those people sustained their own greatness for those teams.

Well I think the HoF induction bar is too low for a lot of players so that also plays into it for me. We're no longer starving for attention or recognition or acceptance or .... so I'd like out first jersey retirement to be more significant. Give me Lowry and Vince gets some other sort of recognition, wall of fame etc.

[The Great One]

bigger to whom? certainly not the majority of raptors fans.

VC's first game back in Toronto, I've never seen anything like it. The building was full of anger and vitriol. Nothing can compare not even LeBron's return to Cleveland, why? because Raptors fans LOVED him and they felt betrayed when he left. He was Toronto's Golden Boy.

16 years later, a lot of those fans have now forgiven him. VC always gets a standing ovation now everytime he plays in Toronto. Heck, he gets an ovation everytime he touches the ball(just watch the last Hawks game). Vince Carter is the most beloved Raptors of all time, and it's not even close. He is also by far the most popular player to ever wear the Raptor uniform, again not close.

Listening to VC's podcast a couple of weeks ago it sounds like the Raptors were planning something big for his last game in Toronto. It would've been an emotional night for Vince and all the fans in the arena. It would've been crazy night. Now, we're just talking about a game here. Imagine a jersey retirement ceremony? Vince's jersey retirement would be massive.

[The Great One]

Sloan played for like 10 seasons with the Bulls and was selected in the expansion draft back in the day. Essentially he played on one team his whole career. He was a good pick, and I don't think there are any Bulls fans upset by that selection. Cousy was considered a GOAT for a long time. And easily one of the most recognizable Celtic legends.

The problem with Vince is that he demanded a trade out and was kicking and screaming on the way out. That's not someone you typically honour. And if you do he shouldn't be setting the bar. Otherwise we might as well start retiring guys like Chris Bosh or Damon Stoudamire as well.

Bosh and Stoudamire never had the same impact as Vince. Not even close.

[The Great One]

DeRozan

What about him?

[S.R.]

FWIW I now live in a podunk rural area and VC's retirement was on the local radio news yesterday. Not even sports radio, just local radio. The is never basketball anything on local radio.

That said, I still don't want his jersey retired. He was popular, he was fun, he left on poor terms, he didn't actually win anything meaningful in Toronto. Those last two points are enough to shift from jersey retirement to video highlights and + nice farewell for me.

[G__Deane]

VC's first game back in Toronto, I've never seen anything like it. The building was full of anger and vitriol. Nothing can compare not even LeBron's return to Cleveland, why? because Raptors fans LOVED him and they felt betrayed when he left. He was Toronto's Golden Boy.

16 years later, a lot of those fans have now forgiven him. VC always gets a standing ovation now everytime he plays in Toronto. Heck, he gets an ovation everytime he touches the ball(just watch the last Hawks game). Vince Carter is the most beloved Raptors of all time, and it's not even close. He is also by far the most popular player to ever wear the Raptor uniform, again not close.

Listening to VC's podcast a couple of weeks ago it sounds like the Raptors were planning something big for his last game in Toronto. It would've been an emotional night for Vince and all the fans in the arena. It would've been crazy night. Now, we're just talking about a game here. Imagine a jersey retirement ceremony? Vince's jersey retirement would be massive.

Yes, it would be massive for fans who idolize(d) him and for selling a few more jerseys and orchestrating another fake feel good occasion.
Not for his stellar career in a Raptor uniform where he won exactly zip except a freakin' dunk contest and some AS appearances in a weak East where fans vote lol. I get that young fans were excited by that, it was cool at the time but we're talking Hall of Fame....

[golden]

Fair enough, but although getting better, I just don't think of the NBA as an international league. No matter you how you slice it, fans saying "look at the impact Vince had on Canadian NBA players" is ridiculous. I'd buy he got a lot of kids hooping which is great but still far more playing hockey and soccer.

I must have missed something.
Who ever made the argument that Vince only inspired black youth to hoop?

But that's the point, I don't think Nash, Vince or ANY player inspired that many NBA players from Canada, if that's what we're talking about. And the numbers back that up.

Did he inspire more kids to play pickup at the local court or their YMCA? Sure .... retire his number for that

lol. You can't be serious. You're pulling my leg, right? VC inspired a generation of Canadian baller. Those are facts. Heck, even Steve Nash's godson was inspired by Vince Carter. lmao.

https://abc11.com/sports/rj-barrett-...built/5034274/

"Vince and Tracy McGrady, they more inspired us taller, long, athletic guys," Barrett told ESPN. "OK, [Carter] is one of the best players in the league. 'Why can't I be that too? I look just like him.' That's where Andrew Wiggins comes from. And then just other guys following his footsteps."

https://www.thestar.com/sports/rapto...es_of_age.html

It echoes through the generations of kids like Olynyk who went to Carter’s camps.

“He just kind of brought that excitement and that passion and that love for the game,” said Olynyk. “You could taste the excitement in the air and the atmosphere was just unbelievable. I think when he got there, and after the first couple years, he really excited the community and brought the community into everything.”

Olynyk, whose father was a longtime basketball coach at the University of Toronto, and whose mother was briefly a scorekeeper for the Raptors, remembers the change well. At first, people had trouble naming a player on the Raptors. When Carter took off, Olynyk says, nobody had that problem any more.

“(He) really brought the basketball community to the next level and kids were aspiring to be great or get to that level,” said Olynyk. “Just having that idol and person to look up to and aspire to be and kind of set your goals and your dreams for you is huge, especially as a little kid growing into basketball, growing up and aspiring to be the next thing at that level.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/basketball/...aptors-joseph/

Cory Joseph of the Toronto Raptors joins Eric Smith to talk about the inspiration Vince Carter was to him.

https://theundefeated.com/whhw/trist...carter-effect/

Tristan Thompson: ‘Vince Carter was our Michael Jordan’ ‘The Carter Effect’ proves that without ‘Vinsanity’ there’s no Toronto basketball

[G__Deane]

What's so hard understand?
He "inspired a generation of NBA players" behind him....

Yup all 16 of them 20 years later ..... the effect is vastly over rated. Did he get a lot of young kids hoopin', no doubt. But his effect on the NBA is negligible. I'd say the Raptors winning the chip will have far more kids balling in the years to come and kids under 10 don't even know him now, he's that irrelevant.

Like ..... what did you call it? Oh yeah, our stellar 3.5% representation in the NBA lol ..... evidently all due to the Carter effect at that

Call me when there are 26.5% Canadians in the NBA like there are Americans in the NHL.....or 10% like a population comparison would suggest.....apples and oranges but funny.

[planetmars]

Bosh and Stoudamire never had the same impact as Vince. Not even close.

Forget Damon for a second. Vince played 6.5 years as a Raptor. Bosh played 7. He's second in total points (will be third once Kyle is done). First in total rebounds and blocks. 5th in career games played (Vince is 10th). 3rd in minutes played. 2nd in PER to Vince by 0.5 (21.8 vs 21.3). Vince made 5 all stars as a Raptor. Bosh also made 5 all-star games. Vince had a career PPG of 23.8 as a Raptor Bosh's career PPG was 20.2. Vince went to the second round.. and had a hell of a playoff series against Philly. And he was a dunk contest winner and had some wicked in game dunks. Bosh has no playoff memories at all. He was kind of boring but he was a PF when it is difficult to build around a PF. But he wasn't that far off from Vince in terms of overall impact. Not as impactful but not that far off either IMO.

But yeah nobody wants Bosh's number retired. Especially since he had greater team success in Miami.

If you allow Vince's jersey to be retired you are opening the gate for other past players who were the best on the team in their time. But who also left unhappily. And that's why I don't want him up there.. and definitely not first.

If Vince gets his jersey retired, then so should Bosh's. I'd even consider Damon. Personal preference is neither of them get it. But if once does, all of them should. DeMar as well.

[golden]

What's so hard understand?
He "inspired a generation of NBA players" behind him....

Yup all 16 of them 20 years later ..... the effect is vastly over rated. Did he get a lot of young kids hoopin', no doubt. But his effect on the NBA is negligible. I'd say the Raptors winning the chip will have far more kids balling in the years to come and kids under 10 don't even know him now, he's that irrelevant.

Like ..... what did you call it? Oh yeah, our stellar 3.5% representation in the NBA lol ..... evidently all due to the Carter effect at that

Call me when there are 26.5% Canadians in the NBA like there are Americans in the NHL.....or 10% like a population comparison would suggest.....apples and oranges but funny.

Uh, okay. You’re just being difficult, for reasons only you can or can’t explain. 16 guys making the NBA from one country is huge. It means that thousands were inspired by VC to play in the first place. It’s a far better yield than any other country outside of the US.

[Sonny]

What about him?

We're talking about jersey retirement right? Kyle Lowry and DeMar DeRozan are the only Raptors that truly deserves to have their numbers retired. Although my gut feeling says #15 will be up there as well.

But anyhow, stop disrespecting DeRozan and Kyle. Just because Kawhi won a championship last year doesn't mean he's accomplished more than DeMar. Kawhi is a mercenary. You can't retire a player's number who's only here for a year. DeRozan on the other hand played here for 9 years, gave his heart and soul the team. #10 deserves his number retired more than #2.

[Sonny]

It would be so disrespectful to DeRozan if they retire Kawhi's number and not his. Smh.

[bertarapsfan]

It's kinda funny to hear people 100% say Carter should be retired but arnt so sure about deboo.
demar had more success,was here longer, wanted to be mr Toronto.
Vince was the exact opposite. Didnt really have playoff success threw us under the bus and set us back a decade. Ya he was popular league wide that's his biggest accomplishment in Toronto.

I dont care either way if Carter goes up. But anyone who thinks demar isn't getting g his Jersey retired is delusional

[G__Deane]

Uh, okay. You’re just being difficult, for reasons only you can or can’t explain. 16 guys making the NBA from one country is huge. It means that thousands were inspired by VC to play in the first place. It’s a far better yield than any other country outside of the US.

There was 108 International players in the NBA (from outside the US)
Canada (16 players) 35M population
Australia (9 players) 25M population
France (8 players) 66M
Croatia (7 players) 4M population
Serbia (6 players) 7M population

You're argument fails on sooooo many levels. Everyone but France must have had better Vince.
PS
C'mon man you actually think 16 players is huge and you think none of the current Canadian NBA players would have played without Vince being around?
wow, yah all the 7 footers would have stuck with curling ....