Vince Carter's Retirement

[MixxAOR]

Imagine if we had prime Vince instead of DeMar. Teamed up with Lowry? Ooooweee

[Tmac2darak]

Funny right now I'm watching 2001 game 7 vs Sixers. I miss Del Curry & his sweet shot.

[KeonClark]

Imagine if we had prime Vince instead of DeMar. Teamed up with Lowry? Ooooweee

Would it have changed our fate? Hard to say. Those cleveland teams we kept running into were good. I think 2018, we beat Cleveland if we magically swap prime vince for prime DeRozan. Yes we got swept but that series was different, we gave away game 1 and also should have had game 3 (DeRozan had 8 pts and we lost by 2)

but then in this magic hypothetical, we lose in the finals, keep the core intact, and dont get Kawhi Leonard, and lose to the Sixers in round 2 (future vince clanks the baseline game winning shot in game 7. 4 bounces, and out). So its whatever, everything worked out

[golden]

Imagine if we had prime Vince instead of DeMar. Teamed up with Lowry? Ooooweee

Well, we did have pre prime Billups, who was basically Lowry 1.0. Raps could’ve had: Billups, VC, TMac & Camby all in their primes. That’s a dynasty right there. Blame Grunwald.

[MixxAOR]

Would it have changed our fate? Hard to say. Those cleveland teams we kept running into were good. I think 2018, we beat Cleveland if we magically swap prime vince for prime DeRozan. Yes we got swept but that series was different, we gave away game 1 and also should have had game 3 (DeRozan had 8 pts and we lost by 2)

but then in this magic hypothetical, we lose in the finals, keep the core intact, and dont get Kawhi Leonard, and lose to the Sixers in round 2 (future vince clanks the baseline game winning shot in game 7. 4 bounces, and out). So its whatever, everything worked out

I think we still lose to Cleveland. But I think US analysts would respect Raptors more. No Trash Bros, no choking lable, no Lebronto. I think Vince had in him to drop 50 on Cleveland in his prime. And Vince for all his faults would not let Lebronto become a thing I think. I dunno maybe i'm wrong.

But yeah all in all I'm not mad anymore with how things ended.

[DanH]

So do you think if Rudy and Demar swapped places in the trade we have a similar outcome for our franchise?

No. Do you think if Rudy and Patrick Patterson switched places (ie, trade never happened) we would have a similar outcome for our franchise? Better give Patterson the credit for all this winning, happened basically from the moment he arrived.

[DanH]

Would it have changed our fate? Hard to say. Those cleveland teams we kept running into were good. I think 2018, we beat Cleveland if we magically swap prime vince for prime DeRozan. Yes we got swept but that series was different, we gave away game 1 and also should have had game 3 (DeRozan had 8 pts and we lost by 2)

but then in this magic hypothetical, we lose in the finals, keep the core intact, and dont get Kawhi Leonard, and lose to the Sixers in round 2 (future vince clanks the baseline game winning shot in game 7. 4 bounces, and out). So its whatever, everything worked out

Peak Vince was a top 5 player. Kawhi-esque in impact.

Obviously no complaints with the outcome. But attributing that outcome to DeMar over players like, Lowry or, you know, that Kawhi guy, to make a contrast between DeMar's impact on winning and Vince's, is incredibly silly.

[Apollo]

Terrence Ross could've been a whole lot more than just a catch and shoot guy. He could've been a Zach LaVine or Caris LeVert type of player. He has that kind of talent. But the Raptors needed 3pt shooters to compliment DeRozan's game because the offense was built around DeMar, so the Raptors developed Ross as a catch and shoot/3D type of player. I think DeMar also hindered JV's development. JV could've been a lot more than just an energy big.

If DeRozan was still here, no way Siakam would develop into the player that he is now. He'd probably be a catch and shoot stretch 4 or just an energy guy like he was before the Kawhi trade.

How do you know that though? And what stopped him from practicing in the summer and season to round out his game? For that matter how do you know they weren't encouraging him to round out his game and helping him but he didn't improve?

[G__Deane]

Do you think Golden State fans lament trading Vince on draft day?
No doubt as they were in the middle 12 straight years of not qualifying for the post season. They were a mess.
But the year Vince quit on the Raptors and fans was 2004/2005, GSW were in their 11th straight years of DNQ

In other words,Quitter-Carter would have quit on them too ....

Do you think Golden State would have retired his number when they went on to win 3 Championships and 5 straight finals?
Not a chance in h*ll, they aren't desperate for recognition any longer.

[The Great One]

How do you know that though? And what stopped him from practicing in the summer and season to round out his game? For that matter how do you know they weren't encouraging him to round out his game and helping him but he didn't improve?

Because the offense was built around DeMar. If Zach LaVine stayed in Minny, do you think he would have developed into the player he is today?

I got a better one, what if James Harden stayed in OKC. Do you think he would have developed into the player he is today? The Thunder's offense was built around KD and Westbrook. If Harden didn't get traded to Houston, he'd probably end up as a career 6th man like Manu Ginobili.

[The Great One]

Peak Vince was a top 5 player. Kawhi-esque in impact.

Obviously no complaints with the outcome. But attributing that outcome to DeMar over players like, Lowry or, you know, that Kawhi guy, to make a contrast between DeMar's impact on winning and Vince's, is incredibly silly.

DeRozan was the man in Toronto for 3 years. 2010-2013. The Raptors with DeRozan as the man went 79-151. A perennial lottery team like the Spurs are right now.

Now, people will probably use the "but he was a young player" excuse.

Vince Carter averaged 18ppg in his rookie year. His second year, he led the Raptors to their first playoff appearance.

[golden]

DeRozan was the man in Toronto for 3 years. 2010-2013. The Raptors with DeRozan as the man went 79-151. A perennial lottery team like the Spurs are right now.

Now, people will probably use the "but he was a young player" excuse.

Vince Carter averaged 18ppg in his rookie year. His second year, he led the Raptors to their first playoff appearance.

Not disagreeing, but 2010-2013 was still BC, aka, Bryan Colangelo or Before Christ.... take your pick.

[Truth Teller]

Vince was a stud and he had all-time talent. Too bad he never took things personal

[S.R.]

Peak Vince was a top 5 player. Kawhi-esque in impact.

Nooooo. He was top 5 in turning heads maybe. Well aware this is only part of the story but Vince never did better than 10th in MVP voting and only made two All NBA teams - a 2nd and a 3rd.

At Vince's very early peak, Shaq, AI, Duncan, KG, Kidd were definitely better, Kobe and Webber were better, T-Mac shot past Vince pretty quick, too. Vince never got to Kawhi's level on the court, only in the air.

VC couldn't even dream of playing both ends of the floor like Kawhi can.

[planetmars]

Yeah I would say top 5 is a reach. He made second team.. so in some way you could say he was top 10.. but that's picking apart positions and determining if the C or PF in the 3rd team was better than the guards in the second team. I'll give him top 10 though.

But to not make first team all-nba team pretty much determines that he was not a top 5 player.

Kawhi was also all-nba second team as a Raptor, but he only played 60 games which is why he fell. But he was all NBA first two other times in 2016 and 2017.