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2020 Playoffs Round 2 Game 1 C*#^tics at Raptors Thursday August 27 6:30pm on (TBA)

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  • Jangles
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  • G__Deane
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    We can get out of the game 1 thread now.....on to game 2

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  • DanH
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    golden wrote: View Post

    Kemba is only like 4ft away from FVV and rising up in his face just after the catch. That’s not an open shot in anybody’s book and further drives home the point about our lack of size in the backcourt being a problem at times, if FVV won’t even attempt to shoot over tiny Kemba. And if all the rational DanH can do is resort to snarky anecdotes for the Lowry example, then my work is done here.
    Huh? My rationale is well established over our many chats about this, you know that. Are we really going to say that Lowry should be afraid to shoot over a late closing out Theis? He absolutely should not and is perfectly capable of taking and making that shot.

    You need a refresher on the size of the court if you think that is 4 feet. That’s not a hurried shot. Fred can hit those easy.

    Guys being hesitant shooting isn’t about the Celtics, it’s about the Raptors. Specifically, the Raptors on this given night, not some defining trait for their shooters.

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  • golden
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    DanH wrote: View Post

    Okay, but Louis is right. The long athletic defender closing out on Fred is Kemba freaking Walker. Gimme a break with that. And Lowry has shown time and again that he can shoot over bigs closing out.
    Kemba is only like 4ft away from FVV and rising up in his face just after the catch. That’s not an open shot in anybody’s book and further drives home the point about our lack of size in the backcourt being a problem at times, if FVV won’t even attempt to shoot over tiny Kemba. And if all the rational DanH can do is resort to snarky anecdotes for the Lowry example, then my work is done here.

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  • DanH
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    golden wrote: View Post

    Ok, so let's calibrate on: "open look" vs. "contested look".

    On the RR feature article, the writer, Louis Zatzman (who is a very good analyst) said that Lowry and FVV passed up good looks on this play, but to me it looks like they have a high probability of being blocked, because Lowry & FVV are so short. So the "open look" criteria is pretty subjective, IMO. Just one example to illustrate the point, but the same biases would exist in whoever is labeling these plays in Synergy.

    You have to take into account Lowry and FVV's size against long, quick & smart defenders when we talk about missing quote/un-quote open looks. We've seen this before. They're going to have to run plays to get them more shooting space... which is what I expect Nurse to do.




    Per Zatzman:



    https://www.raptorsrepublic.com/2020...t-the-celtics/
    Okay, but Louis is right. The long athletic defender closing out on Fred is Kemba freaking Walker. Gimme a break with that. And Lowry has shown time and again that he can shoot over bigs closing out.

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  • golden
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    DanH wrote: View Post

    No, they've been giving up lots of corner threes but contesting them well (and picking and choosing which players they don't contest on).

    My biggest takeaway watching that game was frustration that the Raptors couldn't hit the very good looks they got from 3 all game long (they also couldn't hit the contested looks which there were plenty of but that was less frustrating). So... if I can't trust my eye test, and I can't trust any of the data, I should just trust you? Seems reasonable.
    Ok, so let's calibrate on: "open look" vs. "contested look".

    On the RR feature article, the writer, Louis Zatzman (who is a very good analyst) said that Lowry and FVV passed up good looks on this play, but to me it looks like they have a high probability of being blocked, because Lowry & FVV are so short. So the "open look" criteria is pretty subjective, IMO. Just one example to illustrate the point, but the same biases would exist in whoever is labeling these plays in Synergy.

    You have to take into account Lowry and FVV's size against long, quick & smart defenders when we talk about missing quote/un-quote open looks. We've seen this before. They're going to have to run plays to get them more shooting space... which is what I expect Nurse to do.




    Per Zatzman:

    In that play, VanVleet and Lowry both passed up good looks from behind the arc. Sure, they combined to shoot 3-of-16 from deep in game one. That’s an ugly number. But Boston’s defense is too good for an opposing offense to turn down a good shot.
    https://www.raptorsrepublic.com/2020...t-the-celtics/

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  • DanH
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    G__Deane wrote: View Post

    But you're saying that as if Serge's number would falter as the starter and Marc's would improve off the bench. They wouldn't since Marc is missing open threes and bunnies at the same time. He'd still be missing off the bench
    I'm not seeing how Marc missing threes or bunnies has a direct impact on his defensive rating, the only value I attributed context to re: starting vs bench.

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  • DanH
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    inthepaint wrote: View Post

    You got it. The problem is not defence, is offence. We need more people to put the ball in the basket. Space the floor. Gasol is shrinking it, as defences ignore him and go double team our other guys with impunity, leaving us playing 4 on 5. It's crystal clear, unless you got a blind bias where certain players can't do no wrong and others can't do no right.
    I take it this is for me.

    I didn't see the Celtics ignoring Gasol all that much. I actually expected them to double off him a lot more. He took the few real open threes he got, he just missed them. Just like everyone else did. There was some positive stuff using him as a roller at a few points because Boston didn't expect it, but otherwise the failures of the offence seemed a lot less to do with Gasol and more to do with Siakam having an awful game and absolutely no one being able to hit threes. Except, admittedly, Serge, but assuming he remains the only player able to hit them then moving him to the starting lineup doesn't fix anything if the rest of the team is going to be useless from distance (which is not an assumption we should be making at this point).

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  • G__Deane
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    DanH wrote: View Post

    I agree, the offence is a mess that needs fixing regardless of who is on the floor, my stance is we shouldn't sacrifice defence, the one thing that actually worked, to fix it. His on-court rating of 70.4 is amazingly terrible. If I believed for a second that would continue, like if there was any evidence for that outside of this single game, I would entertain removing Gasol to fix it.

    Gasol by himself at C had a DRTG of 114 (vs Serge's 126) and played his minutes against Boston's starting lineup, not Brad Wanamaker and Semi Ojeleye and Robert Williams III.
    But you're saying that as if Serge's number would falter as the starter and Marc's would improve off the bench. They wouldn't since Marc is missing open threes and bunnies at the same time. He'd still be missing off the bench

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  • DanH
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    Rudy Bargnani wrote: View Post

    Gasol had the worst OFFRTG on the team yesterday.
    What was Boston’s ORTG with Gasol on the floor without Ibaka?
    I agree, the offence is a mess that needs fixing regardless of who is on the floor, my stance is we shouldn't sacrifice defence, the one thing that actually worked, to fix it. His on-court rating of 70.4 is amazingly terrible. If I believed for a second that would continue, like if there was any evidence for that outside of this single game, I would entertain removing Gasol to fix it.

    Gasol by himself at C had a DRTG of 114 (vs Serge's 126) and played his minutes against Boston's starting lineup, not Brad Wanamaker and Semi Ojeleye and Robert Williams III.

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  • G__Deane
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    saints91 wrote: View Post
    In regards to Siakam, not every player is going to thrive in this environment. The guy isn't smiling, has little energy on the court and seems off in his interviews. Some people feed off the energy from a packed stadium, or it could be the living conditions. Who knows, but this isn't Pascal.
    Again, maybe he could have spent a few weeks at drunk drake's palatial hoop court .... pretty good living conditions there I hear

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  • DanH
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    golden wrote: View Post

    Isn't that what the Raptors defense has been doing all year? Conceding open corner 3's.... and getting away with it.

    Or maybe, you can't trust Synergy data and the like and their definitions of "wide open", since it doesn't take into account what a player actually sees and feels at floor level (e.g. speed of closeout, length, etc...).
    No, they've been giving up lots of corner threes but contesting them well (and picking and choosing which players they don't contest on).

    My biggest takeaway watching that game was frustration that the Raptors couldn't hit the very good looks they got from 3 all game long (they also couldn't hit the contested looks which there were plenty of but that was less frustrating). So... if I can't trust my eye test, and I can't trust any of the data, I should just trust you? Seems reasonable.

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  • MixxAOR
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    saints91 wrote: View Post
    In regards to Siakam, not every player is going to thrive in this environment. The guy isn't smiling, has little energy on the court and seems off in his interviews. Some people feed off the energy from a packed stadium, or it could be the living conditions. Who knows, but this isn't Pascal.
    Yeah he looks completely out of it. I think he's going through shit honestly

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  • saints91
    replied
    In regards to Siakam, not every player is going to thrive in this environment. The guy isn't smiling, has little energy on the court and seems off in his interviews. Some people feed off the energy from a packed stadium, or it could be the living conditions. Who knows, but this isn't Pascal.

    Leave a comment:


  • S.R.
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    Maury wrote: View Post
    Pascal's post ups generated good shots for the most part just judging by the eye test. He was making these shots earlier in the year. There was one where he bowled over Smart, and the fouls need to be under control. He gets frustrated and things kind of compound. He has to remember how Kawhi carried himself, and to focus on being level-headed and steadily confident. I think the guys weren't focused, likely due to all of the activism they've been doing, and the Celtics handled it better. Let's hope the energy is better, the focus is better, and the shots fall a little better. I trust Nurse to make the right adjustments, and that Kyle will lead the guys by example and bring the energy and focus they need. Gonna need a strong first quarter tomorrow.
    He's been trying to go straight through guys and finish over the top through contact, which he can do a bit but he's trying to do it a lot right now. Siakam is not a very good at finishing through contact yet, his best moves take him away from it.

    His post ups were ugly. 3 or 4 hesitations then go right into the guy's chest. Those aren't moves, that's indecision.

    He's young and relatively inexperienced and I think he isn't shooting with much confidence right now. He needs to be put in better positions to succeed as a few other posters have described.

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