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GAME 4: Toronto Raptors vs Boston Celtics 09/05/20 6:30 PM ET SN

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  • DanH wrote: View Post

    He did indeed give up a board and fouled in the first play. Although worth noting that the play after Gasol fouled out the Raptors gave up an offensive board off a missed free throw and allowed the put back and one. So, maybe we shouldn’t judge players by single occurrences rather than their full contributions.

    He was also the only player on the team to win his 4th Q minutes. This continues to not be a coincidence.
    Marc had a good game 3. But then had some big lapses and struggles in the last couple minutes.
    He had a pretty good 1st half last night but then looked lost and slow at point in the 2nd. I dont know if he is struggling with conditioning or having trouble getting back into it when sitting so long from the 3rd to 4th. But his end of game play has been rough. I liked his game 3 and was hoping that would carry over but it might just be an age issue and a lack of playing much this season he just looks off late in games and is taking uncharacteristically bad fouls

    I dont think you can say he is the only one to win the 4th quarter minutes last night as a significant stat. We were up 8 going into the 4th, won the game by 7 and marc played like 2-3 mins
    To be the champs you got to beat the champs

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    • DanH wrote: View Post

      He was also the only player on the team to win his 4th Q minutes. This continues to not be a coincidence.
      It is absolutely a coincidence imo.

      Yesterday Marc checks in with 4:48 remaining:
      -Kyle hits a 3 from OG
      -Marcus Smart gets Oreb and Gasol fouls him, Smart makes one free throw
      -Fred misses shot
      -Theis turnover
      -Marc makes easy bucket thanks to Kyle setup
      -Kemba misses three
      -Kyle fouled, hits fts
      -Brown hits three
      -Marc misses jumper
      -Og blocks Brown, Marc gets rebound
      -Kyle misses jumper
      -Tatum misses three, Marc fouls on the offensive rebound (again)
      -Theis misses both free throws
      -Marc is subbed out with 1:00 to go

      So we outscored them by 3 points, yes, but Marc had barely any impact. 1 fg and 1 rebound and 2 fouls in 3:48. He wasn't forcing those missed threes by the Celtics either. And if the Celtics had made their free throws Marc would have been a 0 in +/-.

      It's weird that you are still using him winning his minutes as evidence of anything. Like just watching Marc out there it is pretty obvious that he is a shell of his former self. I love the guy but he looks really rough right now.

      We won this game in spite of Marc, not because of him.




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      • A.I wrote: View Post

        Took him 2 seasons to do it. Crazy.
        Still have 10 more Ws in season 2.

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        • If coach Nurse retired this year he would have the best win loss percentage of all time. Kerr holds second.

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          • Re Gasol, offensively he’s been helpful resetting the offense and being a conduit from one side of the floor to the other. On the flip side, Raps have needed so many resets in part because Gasol is not a threat.

            Defensively, he’s gumming up the works for Boston in the paint but he is slower this year which is why he is getting all the fouls.

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            • Scraptor wrote: View Post

              It is absolutely a coincidence imo.

              Yesterday Marc checks in with 4:48 remaining:
              -Kyle hits a 3 from OG
              -Marcus Smart gets Oreb and Gasol fouls him, Smart makes one free throw
              -Fred misses shot
              -Theis turnover
              -Marc makes easy bucket thanks to Kyle setup
              -Kemba misses three
              -Kyle fouled, hits fts
              -Brown hits three
              -Marc misses jumper
              -Og blocks Brown, Marc gets rebound
              -Kyle misses jumper
              -Tatum misses three, Marc fouls on the offensive rebound (again)
              -Theis misses both free throws
              -Marc is subbed out with 1:00 to go

              So we outscored them by 3 points, yes, but Marc had barely any impact. 1 fg and 1 rebound and 2 fouls in 3:48. He wasn't forcing those missed threes by the Celtics either. And if the Celtics had made their free throws Marc would have been a 0 in +/-.

              It's weird that you are still using him winning his minutes as evidence of anything. Like just watching Marc out there it is pretty obvious that he is a shell of his former self. I love the guy but he looks really rough right now.

              We won this game in spite of Marc, not because of him.



              I'm not crazy about Marc.. but I think he's been great this series.. at least the last 3 games (nobody showed up in game 1). Offensively he's not doing much on a personal level.. but defensively he's been really good IMO. He knows how to use his length. Both at the rim and at the perimeter. First play of the game was him and Lowry forcing Tatum to turn it over. He is a big reason why Tatum struggled in game 3.

              He can do a lot more, but so can guys like Fred and Siakam. Scoring is an issue for the entire team (except for OG and Kyle). But defensively we've been really sharp, and Marc has a lot to do with that. Small sample sizes here but I wouldn't be surprised if Marc has one of the best d ratings on the team so far.

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              • Just checked.. in the Boston series (4 games), he leads the team in defensive rating with 99.5 (not including guys like Matt, Boucher, or TD since they have hardly played). He's second in Net Rating with +1.5 after Kyle (+5.1), again not including the low minute guys.

                Marc's not the issue. In fact the more Marc plays it's probably more beneficial to us. At least in this series.

                But like everyone else on the team he can be a lot better.

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                • Celtics blogger nerds are all writing about how they have no answer for the Ibaka pick & pop.

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                  • DanH wrote: View Post

                    He did indeed give up a board and fouled in the first play. Although worth noting that the play after Gasol fouled out the Raptors gave up an offensive board off a missed free throw and allowed the put back and one. So, maybe we shouldn’t judge players by single occurrences rather than their full contributions.

                    He was also the only player on the team to win his 4th Q minutes. This continues to not be a coincidence.
                    Theis also pretty obviously fouled Marc on that board. Marc is like 2 steps slow, but its noticable because hes always in the right position to begin with and uses his size and length to make up for some of his issues. I trust him a lot more than Ibaka to make the right reads. Hes not a lockdown highlight guy but I think his strengths unlock a lot for switching up defensive looks. That being said, the two centers should pretty evenly split minutes, Ibaka certainly has his pros, he has a higher ceiling imo

                    Regardless, both centers have their troubles rebounding, thats gotta be a team problem.

                    Last edited by DogeLover1234; Sun Sep 6, 2020, 03:37 PM.

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                    • Marc also isn't getting the benefit of the whistle. The refs are treating him like a rookie out there, there were at least 3 calls yesterday that could've been a no-call or gone in his favour. I don't know how he's keeping his composure on some the calls.

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                      • DanH wrote: View Post

                        He did indeed give up a board and fouled in the first play. Although worth noting that the play after Gasol fouled out the Raptors gave up an offensive board off a missed free throw and allowed the put back and one. So, maybe we shouldn’t judge players by single occurrences rather than their full contributions.

                        He was also the only player on the team to win his 4th Q minutes. This continues to not be a coincidence.
                        Find it interesting that in your recap post you made sure to mention the O Reb and and-1 when Serge was in after Gasol fouled out. BTW Smart fouled Siakam on the play which allowed Tatum to get that and-1. I didn't see you mention Gasol's boneheaded play when he snatched the ball away from one of our guards and gave it to a Celtics player before promptly fouling him.

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                        • G__Deane wrote: View Post

                          Good point, the W-L record is more notable than the total wins
                          One of those guys had Kawhi while the other one had DeMar. Also notable.

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                          • Jangles wrote: View Post

                            Find it interesting that in your recap post you made sure to mention the O Reb and and-1 when Serge was in after Gasol fouled out. BTW Smart fouled Siakam on the play which allowed Tatum to get that and-1. I didn't see you mention Gasol's boneheaded play when he snatched the ball away from one of our guards and gave it to a Celtics player before promptly fouling him.
                            That was not a commentary on Serge, it was a statement that they had managed to push to a decent margin before Gasol fouled out, which is the benefit of not waiting too long to sub guys back in for the 4th when they are in foul trouble, such that even though they gave up that board (and I don’t blame Serge alone for it) they still had the required cushion to finish the game without Marc. I thought it was pretty clear that was what I was talking about in that post but I apologize for any miscommunication.
                            twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                            • golden wrote: View Post
                              Celtics blogger nerds are all writing about how they have no answer for the Ibaka pick & pop.
                              Yeah, on nights where Serge literally doesn’t miss from 3 it’s a real tough action to plan for. Would be real nice if Gasol could get back to hitting his shots too.
                              twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                              • Jangles wrote: View Post

                                One of those guys had Kawhi while the other one had DeMar. Also notable.
                                The guy who had Kawhi is 6-2 this year without either.
                                twitter.com/dhackett1565

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