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GAME 5: Toronto Raptors vs Boston Celtics 09/07/20 6:30 PM ET TSN

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  • Scraptor wrote: View Post

    MixxAOR I will do it unless Mixx beats me to it.

    Mixx let me know if you've got something brewing otherwise I'll put it together around 8:30pm et
    Go ahead Scrap
    Only one thing matters: We The Champs.

    Comment


    • golden wrote: View Post

      Also, I wonder how Pascal would have played if we didn't max him out before the season. Is he still a max player?
      You kidding? Free agency is so shallow this year Fred is getting talked about as a long shot max deal (he won’t get it but point stands). Siakam would have teams throwing the max at him no question.
      twitter.com/dhackett1565

      Comment


      • G__Deane wrote: View Post

        You can't defend Gasol by saying everyone else was garbage.
        Marc was terrible (regardless of scoring but it emphasizes it) and it's time to see Nurse throw a different look at the opening lineup; Celtics have our opening lineup figured out....
        They didn’t have it figured out in game 4, or 3, or 2. But they did in game 1. And now in game 5. Maybe it’s not “figured it out”? Maybe it’s “had a bad game, with a team with no margin for error”?
        twitter.com/dhackett1565

        Comment


        • G__Deane wrote: View Post

          I could live more with Gasol's pitiful offensive contributions if he rebounded more but he's allergic to that too......
          Rebounding is a team effort. Especially in a defensive system like this with loads of help. Gasol doesn’t plant in the paint like JV used to to operate as the team’s rebounder. He ends a lot of plays contesting the shot, which means others have to rebound.

          The offensive rebounding is worse with Gasol but part of that is usage, they like him up at the top of the arc or high post. The defensive rebounding is miles better with Gasol than Serge - in this series, the Raptors have rebounded 83% of the Celtics misses when Gasol is on the floor. Only 78% with Serge.

          Again, if you are going to judge players purely on their production, go ahead, have fun with that. You are missing 90% of what happens out there though (only one of the 10 players actually gets a box score addition on most plays, but every one of them influences that play).
          twitter.com/dhackett1565

          Comment


          • DanH wrote: View Post

            They didn’t have it figured out in game 4, or 3, or 2. But they did in game 1. And now in game 5. Maybe it’s not “figured it out”? Maybe it’s “had a bad game, with a team with no margin for error”?
            Maybe we can't afford to say they had (another) bad game after game 6.
            I's time to see Nurse throw a different look at the opening lineup and if Serge is out, those options are fewer.

            Sometimes a change is as good as a rest, stats be damned. Maybe they don't mean jack in the bubble.

            Comment


            • Quick! Send them some stats....
              https://www.sportsnet.ca/nba/article...off-struggles/

              The nature of the beast is this:

              When a good team underperforms, someone on the team has to wear it, or at least some of it.

              The Toronto Raptors are struggling mightily to score against the Boston Celtics. It’s the main reason they trail their second-round series 3-2, and it’s very likely going to cost them their season — unless they can survive a pair of elimination games beginning with Game 6 Wednesday night.

              So, it’s time for Marc Gasol to wear it, or at least some of it.

              Understand: The Raptors aren’t slumping offensively, they are cratering.

              They are the worst offensive team remaining in the NBA post-season and against the Celtics they are averaging just 99.4 points per 100 possessions — a rate that would have them trail the worst offensive team in the regular season by five points per 100 possessions.

              Defensively the Raptors remain ‘fine.’ They are limiting the Celtics to 106.8 points per 100 possessions, which trails the Raptors’ 104.7 regular-season mark but would still be good for 4th in the NBA.

              But their offensive woes are so pronounced that their net-rating is -7.4 — the same as the 20-win Atlanta Hawks this season.

              And how much better would their defence be if the Raptors could force Boston to take the ball out of their own net a little more, rather than pushing the ball ahead off of misses and attacking while the Raptors scramble to get set?

              Things could get worse, too, as the other member of the Raptors’ centre tandem, Serge Ibaka — you know, the one who can score a little — had a walking boot on his left ankle Tuesday and is questionable for Game 6.

              Ibaka has been a bright spot for the Raptors on offence, chipping in with 11.8 points per game on 51.2 per cent shooting overall and 50 per cent from three, continuing a run of mostly positive play ever since the seeding games began back on Aug. 1.

              A failure to this degree has many parents, obviously, and the Celtics are a good enough defensive team to bury all but the most lethal attacks — a category the Raptors don’t fall into.

              But so far the only Raptors performing at or above regular-season levels against Boston have been Ibaka and OG Anunoby. To varying degrees Pascal Siakam, Fred VanVleet, Kyle Lowry and Norman Powell have been held responsible after games when they’ve struggled and to their credit each has had corresponding high points — Powell perhaps the exception so far, but at least the Raptors’ leading regular-season bench scorer keeps looking to score.

              Maybe in Game 6 he will.



              But Gasol’s offensive inability or indifference deserves its own special category. It’s almost like Raptors head coach Nick Nurse — and even segments of the Raptors fan base — have lowered their expectations for the $26-million player to the point that even him looking at the basket is worthy of an enthusiastic thumb’s up, like he’s the struggling 10-year-old on a house league team.

              It’s as if his intangibles make up for Toronto playing 4-on-5 against one of the NBA’s best defences.

              But even though Nurse — like any coach — defends his players in public, sometimes the shortcomings are simply too obvious to be unacknowledged.

              “We don’t need a ton [of offence from him],” Nurse said Tuesday. “It’s not like we need 25 from him. But we need him to chip in with some, just because there’s opportunities there for him … that’s when we’re at our best, and we need to be at our best to win a game here.”

              It’s all very strange given Gasol averaged 15.7 points a game before he was trade from Memphis to Toronto last season and this time last year led Spain to a world championship, a run highlighted by 33-point explosion by Gasol in a semi-final win over Australia.

              Meanwhile Gasol has scored 27 points in five games against Boston and has yet to make a three pointer in 10 attempts, even though virtually all his three-point attempts have been wide open and uncontested.

              He’s managed a single offensive rebound.

              It’s a pattern.
              The nature of the beast is this:

              When a good team underperforms, someone on the team has to wear it, or at least some of it.

              The Toronto Raptors are struggling mightily to score against the Boston Celtics. It’s the main reason they trail their second-round series 3-2, and it’s very likely going to cost them their season — unless they can survive a pair of elimination games beginning with Game 6 Wednesday night.

              So, it’s time for Marc Gasol to wear it, or at least some of it.

              Understand: The Raptors aren’t slumping offensively, they are cratering.

              They are the worst offensive team remaining in the NBA post-season and against the Celtics they are averaging just 99.4 points per 100 possessions — a rate that would have them trail the worst offensive team in the regular season by five points per 100 possessions.

              Defensively the Raptors remain ‘fine.’ They are limiting the Celtics to 106.8 points per 100 possessions, which trails the Raptors’ 104.7 regular-season mark but would still be good for 4th in the NBA.
              Toronto Raptors on Sportsnet NOW
              Livestream the Raptors' quest to defend their NBA title with select NBA playoff games on Sportsnet NOW.
              CHOOSE PLAN
              But their offensive woes are so pronounced that their net-rating is -7.4 — the same as the 20-win Atlanta Hawks this season.

              And how much better would their defence be if the Raptors could force Boston to take the ball out of their own net a little more, rather than pushing the ball ahead off of misses and attacking while the Raptors scramble to get set?

              Things could get worse, too, as the other member of the Raptors’ centre tandem, Serge Ibaka — you know, the one who can score a little — had a walking boot on his left ankle Tuesday and is questionable for Game 6.

              Ibaka has been a bright spot for the Raptors on offence, chipping in with 11.8 points per game on 51.2 per cent shooting overall and 50 per cent from three, continuing a run of mostly positive play ever since the seeding games began back on Aug. 1.

              A failure to this degree has many parents, obviously, and the Celtics are a good enough defensive team to bury all but the most lethal attacks — a category the Raptors don’t fall into.

              But so far the only Raptors performing at or above regular-season levels against Boston have been Ibaka and OG Anunoby. To varying degrees Pascal Siakam, Fred VanVleet, Kyle Lowry and Norman Powell have been held responsible after games when they’ve struggled and to their credit each has had corresponding high points — Powell perhaps the exception so far, but at least the Raptors’ leading regular-season bench scorer keeps looking to score.

              Maybe in Game 6 he will.

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              Raptors have options if Ibaka can't go in Game 6

              But Gasol’s offensive inability or indifference deserves its own special category. It’s almost like Raptors head coach Nick Nurse — and even segments of the Raptors fan base — have lowered their expectations for the $26-million player to the point that even him looking at the basket is worthy of an enthusiastic thumb’s up, like he’s the struggling 10-year-old on a house league team.

              It’s as if his intangibles make up for Toronto playing 4-on-5 against one of the NBA’s best defences.

              But even though Nurse — like any coach — defends his players in public, sometimes the shortcomings are simply too obvious to be unacknowledged.

              “We don’t need a ton [of offence from him],” Nurse said Tuesday. “It’s not like we need 25 from him. But we need him to chip in with some, just because there’s opportunities there for him … that’s when we’re at our best, and we need to be at our best to win a game here.”

              It’s all very strange given Gasol averaged 15.7 points a game before he was trade from Memphis to Toronto last season and this time last year led Spain to a world championship, a run highlighted by 33-point explosion by Gasol in a semi-final win over Australia.

              Meanwhile Gasol has scored 27 points in five games against Boston and has yet to make a three pointer in 10 attempts, even though virtually all his three-point attempts have been wide open and uncontested.

              He’s managed a single offensive rebound.

              It’s a pattern.

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              VanVleet thinks issues from Game 5 will be simple for Raptors to fix

              In nine playoff starts — including four against the over-matched Brooklyn Nets in the first round — Gasol is shooting 40 per cent from the floor and is 3-of-21 from three; in seven seeding games before that he shot 6-of-21, or 28.6 per cent. Gasol is shooting 9-of-42 from deep in Florida, all while being largely ignored by the opposing defences.

              The Celtics are using their big to hound the ball-handler — typically Lowry and VanVleet — after most pick-and-roll actions. By default that leaves Gasol open, and Gasol either won’t shoot or is converting wide-open shots at such an insignificant percentage that it almost doesn’t matter.

              “Yeah, we certainly point ’em out, talk about ’em, show him on the film,” said Nurse. “[We] just got out of the film session – and continue to encourage him and tell him those are shots he needs to take.”

              The why is a bit of a mystery. Gasol shot 40.2 per cent from deep before the 2019-20 season went on hiatus, even while in and out of the lineup due to recurring hamstring problems. He shot 38.2 per cent from three in the playoffs last year and 44.2 per cent with Toronto after arriving from Memphis.

              When Gasol returned from the hiatus having lost considerable weight — remember ‘skinny Marc Gasol?’ — he made his intentions clear:

              “What’s important [is] we’ll all be measured by winning games and getting another ring,” he said as the Raptors arrived at the NBA bubble at Walt Disney World Resort back in July. “That’s what we’re all for. We’re all trying to be in the best situation personally to do that.”

              It hasn’t worked.

              When the Raptors were rolling — they won 11 of their first 12 games in Florida — it didn’t matter and Gasol’s lack of offensive production could be written off because of contributions less obvious but no less significant, his defence and playmaking in particular.

              But here’s the problem: It’s not just Gasol’s offence that has fallen off.

              Sportsnet producer Chris Black dug up some of Gasol’s year-over-year advanced statistics and even in those areas, he’s falling short of his standards.

              During last season’s championship run, Gasol was second among Raptors regulars in WinShares per 48 with .151; this season he’s last among their seven-man rotation at 0.36.

              His deflections are off by nearly half (2.1 last year to 1.2 this year); he’s contesting less shots (from 9.5 to per game to 6.6) and opponents are having more success against him at the rim, converting 68 per cent of their plays compared to 60 per cent a year ago. His playmaking is his calling card offensively, but even there his assists are down and his turnovers are up.

              The Raptors remain a better defensive team with him on the floor, a tribute to his smarts and will. But at what cost?

              Gasol will forever be part of Raptors lore as the stabilizing veteran who was the finishing piece in a championship puzzle; making 7-foot-1, 300-pound Sixers centre Joel Embiid disappear will be his most famous trick, although his performance at the parade alone makes him deserving of a statue.

              But barring a sudden reversal the 35-year-old pending free agent’s usefulness to the Raptors has largely run its course, and it will go down as a brief relationship that produced tremendous highs but ended with a whimper.

              Comment


              • G__Deane wrote: View Post
                Quick! Send them some stats....
                https://www.sportsnet.ca/nba/article...off-struggles/


                It’s as if his intangibles make up for Toronto playing 4-on-5 against one of the NBA’s best defences.

                Grange is a tool but he's got a point. Last year's Gasol was an outstanding defender (particularly when matched against guys like Embiid and Lopez), and had an alright offence.

                After turning 35 and having a 6 month break from basketball, his defence deteriorated (fouling more, getting dunked on, blown by, and conceding more opponent FGs, particularly to faster players), and his offence completely cratered. It cratered so much, that it's having aftershocks on the rest of the team, because it forces to play 4 on 5 on offence. We absolutely need the defensive attention from the Celtics to be spread thin by forcing them to cover all our 5 guys on the floor. We don't have a hope if we don't. We don't have a superstar, we have to win by committee. Therefore we can't afford to have a non-factor offensively, at a time when it's precisely our offence (and not defence) that's struggling so much.

                Stats from a year or two ago don't matter. Players change, teammates change, opponents change, conditioning and development varies from offseason to offseason, and above all, players age. Things change. Playoffs are really just a handful of games, so sometimes when a player is blatantly hurting one area of the game that happens to be where the overall team is hurting, you need a change.

                There's a fine line between sticking to your guns by waiting for the statistical pendulum to swing back to your favor, and being stubborn.

                Next one is an elimination game. We don't have the luxury to "wait for the shots to fall" by just tinkering around edges and beating around the bush with starters that don't know where the basket is anymore. We need early buckets hard and fast, right on the first quarter, so we take control of the game early. You don't do that but shooting yourself in the foot but willingly playing 4 on 5 on offence with the same horses the Celtics have long figured out how to defend.
                2019 NBA Champions. Glad to have doubted the doubters.

                Comment


                • I understand why ppl don’t respect Matt Thomas in Toronto we don’t produce shooting guards we don’t train shooting guard

                  Comment


                  • Every wants to be Kobe Jordan curry non of those are real shooting guards

                    Comment


                    • G__Deane wrote: View Post
                      Quick! Send them some stats....
                      https://www.sportsnet.ca/nba/article...off-struggles/

                      The nature of the beast is this:

                      When a good team underperforms, someone on the team has to wear it, or at least some of it.

                      The Toronto Raptors are struggling mightily to score against the Boston Celtics. It’s the main reason they trail their second-round series 3-2, and it’s very likely going to cost them their season — unless they can survive a pair of elimination games beginning with Game 6 Wednesday night.

                      So, it’s time for Marc Gasol to wear it, or at least some of it.

                      Understand: The Raptors aren’t slumping offensively, they are cratering.

                      They are the worst offensive team remaining in the NBA post-season and against the Celtics they are averaging just 99.4 points per 100 possessions — a rate that would have them trail the worst offensive team in the regular season by five points per 100 possessions.

                      Defensively the Raptors remain ‘fine.’ They are limiting the Celtics to 106.8 points per 100 possessions, which trails the Raptors’ 104.7 regular-season mark but would still be good for 4th in the NBA.

                      But their offensive woes are so pronounced that their net-rating is -7.4 — the same as the 20-win Atlanta Hawks this season.

                      And how much better would their defence be if the Raptors could force Boston to take the ball out of their own net a little more, rather than pushing the ball ahead off of misses and attacking while the Raptors scramble to get set?

                      Things could get worse, too, as the other member of the Raptors’ centre tandem, Serge Ibaka — you know, the one who can score a little — had a walking boot on his left ankle Tuesday and is questionable for Game 6.

                      Ibaka has been a bright spot for the Raptors on offence, chipping in with 11.8 points per game on 51.2 per cent shooting overall and 50 per cent from three, continuing a run of mostly positive play ever since the seeding games began back on Aug. 1.

                      A failure to this degree has many parents, obviously, and the Celtics are a good enough defensive team to bury all but the most lethal attacks — a category the Raptors don’t fall into.

                      But so far the only Raptors performing at or above regular-season levels against Boston have been Ibaka and OG Anunoby. To varying degrees Pascal Siakam, Fred VanVleet, Kyle Lowry and Norman Powell have been held responsible after games when they’ve struggled and to their credit each has had corresponding high points — Powell perhaps the exception so far, but at least the Raptors’ leading regular-season bench scorer keeps looking to score.

                      Maybe in Game 6 he will.



                      But Gasol’s offensive inability or indifference deserves its own special category. It’s almost like Raptors head coach Nick Nurse — and even segments of the Raptors fan base — have lowered their expectations for the $26-million player to the point that even him looking at the basket is worthy of an enthusiastic thumb’s up, like he’s the struggling 10-year-old on a house league team.

                      It’s as if his intangibles make up for Toronto playing 4-on-5 against one of the NBA’s best defences.

                      But even though Nurse — like any coach — defends his players in public, sometimes the shortcomings are simply too obvious to be unacknowledged.

                      “We don’t need a ton [of offence from him],” Nurse said Tuesday. “It’s not like we need 25 from him. But we need him to chip in with some, just because there’s opportunities there for him … that’s when we’re at our best, and we need to be at our best to win a game here.”

                      It’s all very strange given Gasol averaged 15.7 points a game before he was trade from Memphis to Toronto last season and this time last year led Spain to a world championship, a run highlighted by 33-point explosion by Gasol in a semi-final win over Australia.

                      Meanwhile Gasol has scored 27 points in five games against Boston and has yet to make a three pointer in 10 attempts, even though virtually all his three-point attempts have been wide open and uncontested.

                      He’s managed a single offensive rebound.

                      It’s a pattern.
                      The nature of the beast is this:

                      When a good team underperforms, someone on the team has to wear it, or at least some of it.

                      The Toronto Raptors are struggling mightily to score against the Boston Celtics. It’s the main reason they trail their second-round series 3-2, and it’s very likely going to cost them their season — unless they can survive a pair of elimination games beginning with Game 6 Wednesday night.

                      So, it’s time for Marc Gasol to wear it, or at least some of it.

                      Understand: The Raptors aren’t slumping offensively, they are cratering.

                      They are the worst offensive team remaining in the NBA post-season and against the Celtics they are averaging just 99.4 points per 100 possessions — a rate that would have them trail the worst offensive team in the regular season by five points per 100 possessions.

                      Defensively the Raptors remain ‘fine.’ They are limiting the Celtics to 106.8 points per 100 possessions, which trails the Raptors’ 104.7 regular-season mark but would still be good for 4th in the NBA.
                      Toronto Raptors on Sportsnet NOW
                      Livestream the Raptors' quest to defend their NBA title with select NBA playoff games on Sportsnet NOW.
                      CHOOSE PLAN
                      But their offensive woes are so pronounced that their net-rating is -7.4 — the same as the 20-win Atlanta Hawks this season.

                      And how much better would their defence be if the Raptors could force Boston to take the ball out of their own net a little more, rather than pushing the ball ahead off of misses and attacking while the Raptors scramble to get set?

                      Things could get worse, too, as the other member of the Raptors’ centre tandem, Serge Ibaka — you know, the one who can score a little — had a walking boot on his left ankle Tuesday and is questionable for Game 6.

                      Ibaka has been a bright spot for the Raptors on offence, chipping in with 11.8 points per game on 51.2 per cent shooting overall and 50 per cent from three, continuing a run of mostly positive play ever since the seeding games began back on Aug. 1.

                      A failure to this degree has many parents, obviously, and the Celtics are a good enough defensive team to bury all but the most lethal attacks — a category the Raptors don’t fall into.

                      But so far the only Raptors performing at or above regular-season levels against Boston have been Ibaka and OG Anunoby. To varying degrees Pascal Siakam, Fred VanVleet, Kyle Lowry and Norman Powell have been held responsible after games when they’ve struggled and to their credit each has had corresponding high points — Powell perhaps the exception so far, but at least the Raptors’ leading regular-season bench scorer keeps looking to score.

                      Maybe in Game 6 he will.

                      Play Video
                      Play
                      Mute
                      Loaded: 0%
                      Remaining Time -2:49
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                      Raptors have options if Ibaka can't go in Game 6

                      But Gasol’s offensive inability or indifference deserves its own special category. It’s almost like Raptors head coach Nick Nurse — and even segments of the Raptors fan base — have lowered their expectations for the $26-million player to the point that even him looking at the basket is worthy of an enthusiastic thumb’s up, like he’s the struggling 10-year-old on a house league team.

                      It’s as if his intangibles make up for Toronto playing 4-on-5 against one of the NBA’s best defences.

                      But even though Nurse — like any coach — defends his players in public, sometimes the shortcomings are simply too obvious to be unacknowledged.

                      “We don’t need a ton [of offence from him],” Nurse said Tuesday. “It’s not like we need 25 from him. But we need him to chip in with some, just because there’s opportunities there for him … that’s when we’re at our best, and we need to be at our best to win a game here.”

                      It’s all very strange given Gasol averaged 15.7 points a game before he was trade from Memphis to Toronto last season and this time last year led Spain to a world championship, a run highlighted by 33-point explosion by Gasol in a semi-final win over Australia.

                      Meanwhile Gasol has scored 27 points in five games against Boston and has yet to make a three pointer in 10 attempts, even though virtually all his three-point attempts have been wide open and uncontested.

                      He’s managed a single offensive rebound.

                      It’s a pattern.

                      Play Video
                      Play
                      Mute
                      Loaded: 0%
                      Remaining Time -1:02
                      ShareFullscreen
                      VanVleet thinks issues from Game 5 will be simple for Raptors to fix

                      In nine playoff starts — including four against the over-matched Brooklyn Nets in the first round — Gasol is shooting 40 per cent from the floor and is 3-of-21 from three; in seven seeding games before that he shot 6-of-21, or 28.6 per cent. Gasol is shooting 9-of-42 from deep in Florida, all while being largely ignored by the opposing defences.

                      The Celtics are using their big to hound the ball-handler — typically Lowry and VanVleet — after most pick-and-roll actions. By default that leaves Gasol open, and Gasol either won’t shoot or is converting wide-open shots at such an insignificant percentage that it almost doesn’t matter.

                      “Yeah, we certainly point ’em out, talk about ’em, show him on the film,” said Nurse. “[We] just got out of the film session – and continue to encourage him and tell him those are shots he needs to take.”

                      The why is a bit of a mystery. Gasol shot 40.2 per cent from deep before the 2019-20 season went on hiatus, even while in and out of the lineup due to recurring hamstring problems. He shot 38.2 per cent from three in the playoffs last year and 44.2 per cent with Toronto after arriving from Memphis.

                      When Gasol returned from the hiatus having lost considerable weight — remember ‘skinny Marc Gasol?’ — he made his intentions clear:

                      “What’s important [is] we’ll all be measured by winning games and getting another ring,” he said as the Raptors arrived at the NBA bubble at Walt Disney World Resort back in July. “That’s what we’re all for. We’re all trying to be in the best situation personally to do that.”

                      It hasn’t worked.

                      When the Raptors were rolling — they won 11 of their first 12 games in Florida — it didn’t matter and Gasol’s lack of offensive production could be written off because of contributions less obvious but no less significant, his defence and playmaking in particular.

                      But here’s the problem: It’s not just Gasol’s offence that has fallen off.

                      Sportsnet producer Chris Black dug up some of Gasol’s year-over-year advanced statistics and even in those areas, he’s falling short of his standards.

                      During last season’s championship run, Gasol was second among Raptors regulars in WinShares per 48 with .151; this season he’s last among their seven-man rotation at 0.36.

                      His deflections are off by nearly half (2.1 last year to 1.2 this year); he’s contesting less shots (from 9.5 to per game to 6.6) and opponents are having more success against him at the rim, converting 68 per cent of their plays compared to 60 per cent a year ago. His playmaking is his calling card offensively, but even there his assists are down and his turnovers are up.

                      The Raptors remain a better defensive team with him on the floor, a tribute to his smarts and will. But at what cost?

                      Gasol will forever be part of Raptors lore as the stabilizing veteran who was the finishing piece in a championship puzzle; making 7-foot-1, 300-pound Sixers centre Joel Embiid disappear will be his most famous trick, although his performance at the parade alone makes him deserving of a statue.

                      But barring a sudden reversal the 35-year-old pending free agent’s usefulness to the Raptors has largely run its course, and it will go down as a brief relationship that produced tremendous highs but ended with a whimper.
                      Missed the mark completely

                      Comment


                      • I will open up class today! Why are Lowry and Fred struggling to score? What is Boston doing...this is very simple guy. Clogging the paint ! Hummm ok what happens when Matt Thomas is on the floor ? Some one show game tape chest to chest without the ball! What does that mean?

                        Comment


                        • Ooh, Michael Grange disagrees with me? Golly, better retire from posting on here. That's a blow I'll never recover from.
                          twitter.com/dhackett1565

                          Comment


                          • DanH wrote: View Post
                            Ooh, Michael Grange disagrees with me? Golly, better retire from posting on here. That's a blow I'll never recover from.
                            Nurse and Lowry have both said they have urged Marc to be more involved offensively (actually get his, not passing and screens). FVV also was quoted as saying they need Marc to take his open shots.

                            I'll stay on their side.

                            You can make snide remarks all you like but many people smarter than both of us have recognized that he's simply not playing as well as he can. And they need him to.

                            Comment


                            • G__Deane wrote: View Post

                              Nurse and Lowry have both said they have urged Marc to be more involved offensively (actually get his, not passing and screens). FVV also was quoted as saying they need Marc to take his open shots.

                              I'll stay on their side.

                              You can make snide remarks all you like but many people smarter than both of us have recognized that he's simply not playing as well as he can. And they need him to.
                              Right. My point has always been that a) the Raptors can succeed sometimes without his production and that success is more important, b) that we should only worry about Marc’s production in specific scenarios where we need it (it has hurt in those games where the starts have been slow, games 1 and 5), and c) that no matter your position on whether Marc needs to produce or not, it should not change your position on starting him. We need to start him to win. We very well may need him to produce to win in a given game, but we definitely need him to start. Ask away if you want more production. But there are positions out there (like Grange’s article) that stipulate that if he doesn’t produce, maybe he’s not worth having out there. And that’s just not true.
                              twitter.com/dhackett1565

                              Comment


                              • I don't think he can play better.
                                Only one thing matters: We The Champs.

                                Comment

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