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  • DogeLover1234 wrote: View Post

    Good point. Might be a case where you accrue 3-4 cheap bigs who can all play depending on matchup and go small with OG when it counts. Loved his effort rebounding in those minutes and with a bit more experience I could see those lineups working really well in limited minutes. Even more than shooting, those lineups added penetration - something we were sorely lacking.
    The requirements for centers these days are trending towards those who can: (1) can protect the rim, (2) shoot the 3, and (3) switch onto guards on the perimeter. Boucher is close to checking those boxes, except guarding the low-post against bulky centers, like Embiid. One scenario could be where we sign & trade Serge or let him walk, keep Gasol for a 1-year deal, and sign Boucher for cheap as the backup. Then we pick up another veteran center on a minimum deal and try to develop Dewan.

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    • Re-signing VV is a must. Lowry is not getting any younger. People act like finding a GREAT starting caliber point guard like VV is easy to find. Smh. Who was the last great Raptor PG before Lowry? Damon Stoudamire.

      People keeps complaining about his shot selection in the playoffs - the fact is he and Lowry are the only guys on the team that can make plays and create their own shot. The other "all star" on the team completely abandoned them.

      If you want to whine about why their offense was so stagnant against Boston, then you blame 43 because he was a COMPLETE no-show.
      Mamba Mentality

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      • If Superstar Siakam showed up against Boston people wouldn't be talking about VV. He didn't show up so let's blame the guy who showed up and let's talk about his weakness as a player smh. Jesus Christ.
        Mamba Mentality

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        • The Great One wrote: View Post
          Re-signing VV is a must. Lowry is not getting any younger. People act like finding a GREAT starting caliber point guard like VV is easy to find. Smh. Who was the last great Raptor PG before Lowry? Damon Stoudamire.

          People keeps complaining about his shot selection in the playoffs - the fact is he and Lowry are the only guys on the team that can make plays and create their own shot. The other "all star" on the team completely abandoned them.

          If you want to whine about why their offense was so stagnant against Boston, then you blame 43 because he was a COMPLETE no-show.
          Nice false dichotomy there. Nevermind that Fred's shot attempts increased by more than Siakam's decreased - FVV was taking shots away from guys not named Pascal - the fact that both were high usage and low efficiency was a problem that swung the series. Siakam responded by decreasing his attempts a bit, which makes sense. Fred responded to his difficulty scoring by jacking up his shot attempts a lot, which didn't make any sense at all. We didn't get more points out of Fred, just a lot more missed shots.

          Both of them needed to be involved differently than they were or make better plays with the ball. But Fred ran the p'n'r then hoisted his own contested shots or drove into blocks, instead of playing off ball shooter, where he's performed well. The whole team was putting Siakam in iso post ups and 30 foot isos, with zero weak side movement and the strong side entirely cleared out. That's on all of Siakam, the coach, and the team for putting him in those situations for 7 straight games when it wasn't producing anything vs Brown. At least run Siakam post ups with off ball screens and cuts so he could pass out of the post. Siakam should have demanded that, so should the coach and so should the vet PG's on the floor. The NN hippy approach to just letting guys ball at the offensive end bit them in that series for sure. No need to pick on one guy and absolve others, there are shoulda/coulda/woulda's to go around for several people.
          "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

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          • The Great One wrote: View Post
            Re-signing VV is a must. Lowry is not getting any younger. People act like finding a GREAT starting caliber point guard like VV is easy to find. Smh. Who was the last great Raptor PG before Lowry? Damon Stoudamire.

            People keeps complaining about his shot selection in the playoffs - the fact is he and Lowry are the only guys on the team that can make plays and create their own shot. The other "all star" on the team completely abandoned them.

            If you want to whine about why their offense was so stagnant against Boston, then you blame 43 because he was a COMPLETE no-show.
            You're right in the sense that Fred is at least probably an average starting PG- as in, one of the top 15-20 at least, and those don't grow on trees.

            I'd probably put him in a tier with Brogdon, Bledsoe- call it the middle starter tier. We definitely can't just get rid of him and assume anyone with his usage will just crop up and be capable (cough...golden...cough)

            At the same time, re: fred, siakam etc, you seem hell bent on making future roster moves based on whatever happened in a 2 week series in a covid bubble with no fans. That is terrible approach and I don't think Masai uses it.
            Last edited by KeonClark; Tue Sep 15th, 2020, 05:31 PM.
            It's Klaw Season. Time to hunt.

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            • Fred is a good player, but it sucks having two short guards starting. Thats part of the reason why we lost against the Celtics. Sure you can blame Pascal, but whenever Tatum or Brown got a switch on Kyle or Fred, they can shoot over them and both are good mid range shooters. Happened quite often. Either way I'm expecting some mediocre team to overpay for Fred, so we can say good bye to him.

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              • A.I wrote: View Post
                Fred is a good player, but it sucks having two short guards starting. Thats part of the reason why we lost against the Celtics. Sure you can blame Pascal, but whenever Tatum or Brown got a switch on Kyle or Fred, they can shoot over them and both are good mid range shooters. Happened quite often. Either way I'm expecting some mediocre team to overpay for Fred, so we can say good bye to him.
                Yeah its too redundant. But I think you have to sign him for the asset, maybe we can work out something for Holiday or Oladipo or beal down the road
                It's Klaw Season. Time to hunt.

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                • KeonClark wrote: View Post


                  At the same time, re: fred, siakam etc, you seem hell bent on making future roster moves based on whatever happened in a 2 week series in a covid bubble with no fans. That is terrible approach and I don't think Masai uses it.
                  I don't think Siakam wants to be the guy. He doesn't have the mentality of a great player. He's just happy to be a role player. That's my problem with him.

                  My problem with Lowry in the past was him missing shots. That's it. I never questioned his heart or will to win. With Siakam i have a lot of questions including heart and will to win.

                  If I'm in charge of the team I would move Siakam for a top 10 pick or package him for a player like Beal.
                  Mamba Mentality

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                  • KeonClark wrote: View Post

                    You're right in the sense that Fred is at least probably an average starting PG- as in, one of the top 15-20 at least, and those don't grow on trees.

                    I'd probably put him in a tier with Brogdon, Bledsoe- call it the middle starter tier. We definitely can't just get rid of him and assume anyone with his usage will just crop up and be capable (cough...golden...cough)

                    At the same time, re: fred, siakam etc, you seem hell bent on making future roster moves based on whatever happened in a 2 week series in a covid bubble with no fans. That is terrible approach and I don't think Masai uses it.
                    Trey Burke, aka. Costco Iverson, says hello. Derrick Rose @ 7M/yr nods approvingly.

                    Ask Milwaukee fans what they think of Bledsoe's contract now? And FVV is nowhere in the same class as Brogdon. He was the Bucks #1 or #2 option for most of the season and he did pretty well. Let's imagine Fred as the defacto #1 option? I'm trying to forget what I just saw. Brogdon and Bledsoe are bad comps.
                    Last edited by golden; Tue Sep 15th, 2020, 06:00 PM.

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                    • golden wrote: View Post

                      Trey Burke, aka. Costco Iverson, says hello. Derrick Rose @ 7M/yr nods approvingly.
                      So a placeholder to replace Lowry?

                      PS - Burke and Rose are nowhere near as good a defender as Fred.
                      Mamba Mentality

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                      • Rose is washed. We really shouldn't be talking about him. Burke is a journeyman PG who had two good games for the Mavs in the playoffs.
                        Mamba Mentality

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                        • The Great One wrote: View Post

                          So a placeholder to replace Lowry?

                          PS - Burke and Rose are nowhere near as good a defender as Fred.
                          Sure, but Burke and Rose can do things on offense that Fred can't. The one thing we actually need in the playoffs.... somebody who can break down the defense, create an advantage and make it easier for his teammates to score. Burke and Rose can do that. Fred dribbles 15 seconds off the clock and makes it tougher on everybody else.

                          The other thing is that offensive-minded players and veterans tend to coast during the regular season and then crank up the defense in the playoffs. Pierce used to do that, Lebron does that and of course, Playoff Rondo is doing that this year. Fred switches to a lower gear on offense, but some players have another gear on defense.

                          That said, Fred's defense wasn't anything special defensively. We had to revert to the Box & 1 to slow down Kemba and hide Fred's inability to fight over screens in conventional defense and Stevens eventually figured out how to exploit that gimmick defense.

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                          • golden wrote: View Post

                            Sure, but Burke and Rose can do things on offense that Fred can't. The one thing we actually need in the playoffs.... somebody who can break down the defense, create an advantage and make it easier for his teammates to score. Burke and Rose can do that. Fred dribbles 15 seconds off the clock and makes it tougher on everybody else.

                            The other thing is that offensive-minded players and veterans tend to coast during the regular season and then crank up the defense in the playoffs. Pierce used to do that, Lebron does that and of course, Playoff Rondo is doing that this year. Fred switches to a lower gear on offense, but some players have another gear on defense.

                            That said, Fred's defense wasn't anything special defensively. We had to revert to the Box & 1 to slow down Kemba and hide Fred's inability to fight over screens in conventional defense and Stevens eventually figured out how to exploit that gimmick defense.
                            You're focusing on what Fred can't do instead of what he can do. Let's talk about what Rose and Burke can't do. Neither play D. Rose is washed who can't shoot not to mention injury prone. Burke is a journeyman PG who's hot and cold offensively and just like Rose is injury prone.

                            Fred struggled on offense sure but why was the ball on his hands all the time? because Siakam didn't show up. It's obvious that Fred is not good enough to be a 1 on 1 player or shot creator but he was the best they have.

                            Now let's talk about his D.

                            Mamba Mentality

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                            • The Great One wrote: View Post
                              Rose is washed. We really shouldn't be talking about him. Burke is a journeyman PG who had two good games for the Mavs in the playoffs.
                              Burke has always been a very good offensive player. Great 3P shooter, can get to the rim, score in the mid-range.... his numbers are pretty consistent regardless of where he played. Yep, defense is a problem, I'll agree with you, but we should be looking at a stop-gap 1-year backup PG (the position Fred should have been able to fill) and then re-set everything in 2021 for the long-term. Paying FVV 20M+ along with Pascal's 30M makes roster building pretty difficult, so we need to be looking at options at a position of high supply in tne NBA ... backup PG.

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                              • I love how Fred plays but not for 20M+, you can’t play slightly above average players big money and be a title contender. Fred has most likely hit his ceiling or close to it.

                                I also agree you can’t lose an asset for nothing.

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