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  • slaw wrote: View Post

    The guy has averaged a triple-double three of the last four years and D'Antoni turned him into a beast after Christmas this past season. It isn't his coaches' fault. There is no system where Westbrook averages a triple -triple. The problem is that he thinks he is a #1 guy, is paid like a #1 guy and his style of play means he needs to be treated like a #1 guy, except the limitations in his game make him a #2 or even #3 guy come playoff time.

    It's not that he's a bad guy or that there is anything wrong with him. It's just that he isn't good enough to build a true contender around. Very few players are (Lebron, Kawhi, Doncic(?), Giannis, Harden(?), Durant(?), Curry). He's a terrific player but if he is your best player your ceiling is conference finals only if everything breaks perfect for your team. He's not the only guy like this it's just that his contract makes him stand out.
    I'm not saying he's a #1 guy, he lacks shooting big time and that's why D'Antoni and his system was a bad fit. I'm not even talking about OKC, they allowed him to average triple-double in the first place, that's exactly my point, he hasn't played in one where he's managed properly.
    Official Pope of the Raptors sponsored by MLSE.

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    • Veteran depth for this year on a contract that has a best before date of 2020 seasons end. Its a fit.
      Houston will want draft pick(s).
      I bet they would look at this years second and possibly 2022s second as enough to move on from PJ.
      Big upgrade on the RondaeHollis role .. to me anyway.

      BUT

      Why does Toronto or Houston want to do this ?
      PJ should be OK.. He moves from one zero state income tax location in Houston to another in Florida for the duration of his deal.
      Who really knows whats going on in Houston. They are making the Vlade Divic Kings look smooth.
      Webster and Ujiri get on the court help they can flip for more than they paid for or close to equal value at the trade deadline.


      "We can grow the economy not from the top down the way Mr. Harper wants to... but from the heart outwards". ---- Justin Trudeau 2015

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      • S.R. wrote: View Post

        This season will be telling, but at this moment + with the power of hindsight I'm wondering if Kawhi didn't have the perfect situations in SAS and TOR. Two deep, talented teams with great coaching and very strong, mature locker room leadership. He could slot in on those teams with top tier basketball skills. But he has major health concerns your team has to be deep enough to absorb and he appears to have major leadership deficiencies. I'm not sure if he'll adjust to do what he needs to do in the locker room in LA? Or will he continue to insist on his own special treatment? I'd wager on the latter and I'm not sure if he'll find that perfect situation again. Your 1A star usually has to help you build that and doesn't just get to parachute into it.
        problem is he seemed to want to get the special treatment in a new spot with an entirely new team and they all walked around like they had just won the chip 3 years in a row when they hadn't won a darn thing.

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        • Demographic Shift wrote: View Post
          Veteran depth for this year on a contract that has a best before date of 2020 seasons end. Its a fit.
          Houston will want draft pick(s).
          I bet they would look at this years second and possibly 2022s second as enough to move on from PJ.
          Big upgrade on the RondaeHollis role .. to me anyway.

          BUT

          Why does Toronto or Houston want to do this ?
          PJ should be OK.. He moves from one zero state income tax location in Houston to another in Florida for the duration of his deal.
          Who really knows whats going on in Houston. They are making the Vlade Divic Kings look smooth.
          Webster and Ujiri get on the court help they can flip for more than they paid for or close to equal value at the trade deadline.

          honestly it would balance out our wing depth but i'd be fine either way.

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          • RandomGuy wrote: View Post

            I'm not saying he's a #1 guy, he lacks shooting big time and that's why D'Antoni and his system was a bad fit. I'm not even talking about OKC, they allowed him to average triple-double in the first place, that's exactly my point, he hasn't played in one where he's managed properly.
            He has the same coach in Washington that he had in OKC though.

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            • TrueTorontoFan wrote: View Post

              honestly it would balance out our wing depth but i'd be fine either way.
              I like this deal for the Raps ..
              No idea why houston would want to do this for draft picks.. somebody has to play with harden if you want him to change his mind and play in houston.
              "We can grow the economy not from the top down the way Mr. Harper wants to... but from the heart outwards". ---- Justin Trudeau 2015

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              • S.R. wrote: View Post

                This season will be telling, but at this moment + with the power of hindsight I'm wondering if Kawhi didn't have the perfect situations in SAS and TOR. Two deep, talented teams with great coaching and very strong, mature locker room leadership. He could slot in on those teams with top tier basketball skills. But he has major health concerns your team has to be deep enough to absorb and he appears to have major leadership deficiencies. I'm not sure if he'll adjust to do what he needs to do in the locker room in LA? Or will he continue to insist on his own special treatment? I'd wager on the latter and I'm not sure if he'll find that perfect situation again. Your 1A star usually has to help you build that and doesn't just get to parachute into it.
                He is not a leader and he doesn't have the acumen to know what he needs around him, so you can't empower him as a front office cause he won't pick the right guys and he couldn't lead the right guys even if he got them. He is great as the best player on your team provided you have other guys to do all the things that leaders do inside and outside the locker room. As I've said before, he's the perfect gunslinger for hire. An ideal mercenary. But if you need him to be the general then you are in trouble.

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                • S.R. wrote: View Post

                  This season will be telling, but at this moment + with the power of hindsight I'm wondering if Kawhi didn't have the perfect situations in SAS and TOR. Two deep, talented teams with great coaching and very strong, mature locker room leadership. He could slot in on those teams with top tier basketball skills. But he has major health concerns your team has to be deep enough to absorb and he appears to have major leadership deficiencies. I'm not sure if he'll adjust to do what he needs to do in the locker room in LA? Or will he continue to insist on his own special treatment? I'd wager on the latter and I'm not sure if he'll find that perfect situation again. Your 1A star usually has to help you build that and doesn't just get to parachute into it.
                  I commented on this right when Kawhi left and the Clips roster started to take shape. He's a great player, but as a wing, he's always had the the luxury to play with extremely high BBIQ point guards, centres and coaches, all perfectly complementing his game: Ginobli, prime Tony Parker, Tim Duncan, Kyle Lowry, Marc Gasol (back when he still remembered where the basket was), Nick Nurse and Greg Poppovich.

                  He went from that to Pat Beverly, Zubac and a coach that's no longer there. I don't care how good any individual player is, it will always be a team sport. There's a reason Lebron missed the playoff for the first time in 100 years before AD went to the Lakers, and why AD himself on it's own with the Pelicans only made the playoffs once. People always drool about supertstars but if there's no team foundation with them it's just empty glitter.
                  2019 NBA Champions. Glad to have doubted the doubters.

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                  • inthepaint wrote: View Post

                    I commented on this right when Kawhi left and the Clips roster started to take shape. He's a great player, but as a wing, he's always had the the luxury to play with extremely high BBIQ point guards, centres and coaches, all perfectly complementing his game: Ginobli, prime Tony Parker, Tim Duncan, Kyle Lowry, Marc Gasol (back when he still remembered where the basket was), Nick Nurse and Greg Poppovich.

                    He went from that to Pat Beverly, Zubac and a coach that's no longer there. I don't care how good any individual player is, it will always be a team sport. There's a reason Lebron missed the playoff for the first time in 100 years before AD went to the Lakers, and why AD himself on it's own with the Pelicans only made the playoffs once. People always drool about supertstars but if there's no team foundation with them it's just empty glitter.
                    Hard to get there without multiple superstars too which was the real problem for lebron in year 1 LA and AD on Pels

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                    • G__Deane wrote: View Post

                      Hard to get there without multiple superstars too which was the real problem for lebron in year 1 LA and AD on Pels
                      I don't think you necessarily need multiple superstars (though that sure helps), but you need 1 + an elite team to win it. That was the case for the Pre-durant Warriors, Lebron's Cavs, some of the Spurs teams, 2011 Mavs, and us in 2019. 1 or 2 superstars with a crap roster/coach is not gonna win.
                      2019 NBA Champions. Glad to have doubted the doubters.

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                      • inthepaint wrote: View Post

                        I don't think you necessarily need multiple superstars (though that sure helps), but you need 1 + an elite team to win it. That was the case for the Pre-durant Warriors, Lebron's Cavs, some of the Spurs teams, 2011 Mavs, and us in 2019. 1 or 2 superstars with a crap roster/coach is not gonna win.
                        Totally agree ANd the clippers are worse than those teams. Kawhi had HOF leaders like Manu, Duncan, Parker, Lowry, Gasol on the court with him. When the chips are down if you need Lou Williams to organize an on court huddle you are done son.

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                        • Clippers' Serge Ibaka: 'I never thought I would leave the Raptors'

                          https://www.sportsnet.ca/nba/article...leave-raptors/

                          "When I said I wanted to stay with the Raptors, it was true. But last minute, things change," he said. "People see things differently."

                          If I had to read into it, I think the rumours of the Raps offering Serge more money on a one year deal were true.

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                          • G__Deane wrote: View Post
                            Clippers' Serge Ibaka: 'I never thought I would leave the Raptors'

                            https://www.sportsnet.ca/nba/article...leave-raptors/

                            "When I said I wanted to stay with the Raptors, it was true. But last minute, things change," he said. "People see things differently."

                            If I had to read into it, I think the rumours of the Raps offering Serge more money on a one year deal were true.
                            Paying Fred made us lose Serge and then Kyle next year. Hope he’s worth it.

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                            • golden wrote: View Post

                              Paying Fred made us lose Serge and then Kyle next year. Hope he’s worth it.
                              Eh Serge is one of the most overrsted guys in the league right now tbh. Plus we could have paid both and chose not to - hard to see how that has to do with Fred. If I were to read into that Serge quote, he planned on coming back until Clips missed out on all their bigs and made a strong oush for him. Maybe thats wrong but with how the offseason played out Toronto wanted him. I cant say how much the Fred signing affects Lowrys long term outlook, I’d imagine if he wants to stay they keep him and work out an acceptable price but idk how it works with cap. Either way, Freds really good and Im happy to have him back

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                              • I don't totally get this tbh. Serge seemed pretty upset in his presser yesterday. He was that bothered by $12m offer vs $9m+$9m offer? I mean Toronto literally offered him more money to play basketball next year in a situation he apparently loved. LA offered him an extra year (not a 3 or 4 year deal) - a year in which Kawhi and PG might not be there and Serge might be using his PO to decide if he wants to be on a lottery team with Lou Williams or not? That's what ticked him off and forced a last second recalibration?

                                Does that not totally add up got anyone else? What am I missing. If he stayed in Toronto, he'd sign another contract next summer. He'd still be good. Gasol wasn't going to be here. He'd have probably been starting.
                                "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

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