Everything Off Season

[grindhouse]

Right but Baynes is roughly an Ibaka replacement on both ends and Ibaka was a huge net step down from Gasol all things considered.

If we're talking point differential or record when Gasol played, world beater was about right. Bubble Gasol not so much, the offence completely disappearing hurt too much, but worth noting we still had a very competitive 7 gamer against another top team. It's not like we bowed out easy, even with so much of the key rotation pieces simply not themselves in the bubble.

If we got regular season Gasol in the playoffs we glide past Boston. Sadly we did not - and that's my concern, we won't have that this year at all.

Baynes has not played one game yet chill. He has to earn a spot. And both those players helped bring a championship to Toronto put some respect on their names.

[Mitchell Duong]

Unless Baynes has an injured plagued season. He's going to be fine. Good addition. Boucher and Len are the wild cards here. Lots of minutes at 5 (and a bit at 4) available, that they can make an impression with.

[The Great One]

[DogeLover1234]

Right but Baynes is roughly an Ibaka replacement on both ends and Ibaka was a huge net step down from Gasol all things considered.

If we're talking point differential or record when Gasol played, world beater was about right. Bubble Gasol not so much, the offence completely disappearing hurt too much, but worth noting we still had a very competitive 7 gamer against another top team. It's not like we bowed out easy, even with so much of the key rotation pieces simply not themselves in the bubble.

If we got regular season Gasol in the playoffs we glide past Boston. Sadly we did not - and that's my concern, we won't have that this year at all.

I still think you are overselling this. Last season he was a net -0.8 pts/poss per cleaning the glass, distictly not world beater status. Sure in the limited minutes he was here the year with Kawhi we were awesome, and he probably will be awesome in LA with LeBron and AD, but thats because hes an enhancer. His scoring numbers are too bad to be part of a “world beater” offense at this point in his career without playing around a legit supernova talent. Yeah his defense is incredible and can anchor a league best defense, but even then I think you discount how his age and game translates to the playoffs a bit.

How do you compare Baynes to Ibaka? Granted I havent watched too much of his game but from memory and the numbers his playstyle is more like a generic big - solid positional defender who eats of the middle of the court just by taking up space. Looks like he can step out and shoot the three a bit but isnt doing much good for your offense. Seems like hes a limited offensive guy who can anchor a good defense as long as the rest of the unit can make plays. Is he a downgrade, yes, but we lost free agency.

[planetmars]

That's insane

According to our sources, the suspect told cops DeRozan's home was not his intended target -- he was trying to get to Kylie Jenner's home but made a mistake.

DeMar and his family should pack up and move. Kardashian fans are nuts.

[DanH]

I still think you are overselling this. Last season he was a net -0.8 pts/poss per cleaning the glass, distictly not world beater status. Sure in the limited minutes he was here the year with Kawhi we were awesome, and he probably will be awesome in LA with LeBron and AD, but thats because hes an enhancer. His scoring numbers are too bad to be part of a “world beater” offense at this point in his career without playing around a legit supernova talent. Yeah his defense is incredible and can anchor a league best defense, but even then I think you discount how his age and game translates to the playoffs a bit.

How do you compare Baynes to Ibaka? Granted I havent watched too much of his game but from memory and the numbers his playstyle is more like a generic big - solid positional defender who eats of the middle of the court just by taking up space. Looks like he can step out and shoot the three a bit but isnt doing much good for your offense. Seems like hes a limited offensive guy who can anchor a good defense as long as the rest of the unit can make plays. Is he a downgrade, yes, but we lost free agency.

I just mean the Raptors played at a 70 win pace with Gasol in the lineup, a 50 win pace without, had a +10 net rating with him on the court and +4 net rating with him sitting. Worldbeater numbers vs solid team numbers. You can argue plenty that he wouldn't be able to repeat that impact. But that doesn't mean a guy like Baynes will be able to replicate it.

​​​​​

[inthepaint]

I still think you are overselling this. Last season he was a net -0.8 pts/poss per cleaning the glass, distictly not world beater status. Sure in the limited minutes he was here the year with Kawhi we were awesome, and he probably will be awesome in LA with LeBron and AD, but thats because hes an enhancer. His scoring numbers are too bad to be part of a “world beater” offense at this point in his career without playing around a legit supernova talent. Yeah his defense is incredible and can anchor a league best defense, but even then I think you discount how his age and game translates to the playoffs a bit.

How do you compare Baynes to Ibaka? Granted I havent watched too much of his game but from memory and the numbers his playstyle is more like a generic big - solid positional defender who eats of the middle of the court just by taking up space. Looks like he can step out and shoot the three a bit but isnt doing much good for your offense. Seems like hes a limited offensive guy who can anchor a good defense as long as the rest of the unit can make plays. Is he a downgrade, yes, but we lost free agency.

Yeah there's too much bias around here. Gasol was great in the championship year, but he's currently thoroughly washed. Before he went to the bubble, he hadn't played pro basketball for 6 months, at age 35. Defensive instincts were there, but two steps slower and committing a lot of fouls to make up for it. Often in foul trouble. Offensively, had neither rhythm nor confidence. Couldn't/wouldn't hit from outside, midrange nor post. Rebounded poorly too. Looked like he didn't want to be on the court a lot of times during the Boston series. If you could sense the body language from the TV, I can only imagine how it felt in the court (for both teammates and opponents). Boston players noticed and started to ignore him on offence, making life difficult for our other guys.

[bertarapsfan]

I saw the headline and thought man that guy fucked up going inside a guys home who throws up compton crip signs after hitting game winners.
Sure enough the Demar quote was. "I grew up in Compton Callifornia, Ive seen worse"

[G__Deane]

Crazy but the perp meant to get into Kylie Jenners.....that's what you get for living near the crazy people

[LJ2]

Unless Masai has a surprise up his sleeves, the roster is probably set (minus figuring out the fringe 2-way contracts) .

Baynes is basically a cross of Serge and Marc. We lose Marc's defense and passing which will be a big loss.. but I think we get a bit more consistency from Serge who can be bad (and was overrated).

We might dip a bit but we'll see. I think Baynes was a solid get. He'll be a Raptor favourite by the end of the year. His biggest concern is that he's old and can't really play a lot. So we'll have to rely on Len/Boucher and/or small ball to get by. That could be a problem. Or may actually workout great. It's a wait and see.

Nobody expected last seasons roster to be as good as they were (#2 record in the entire league). Yet it happened. We do well when we're underdogs. And I see that happening again.

I think there is a lot riding on this season for Masai, in terms of his pursuit of Giannis. This cannot be a take a step back type of season. They HAVE to be in the conversation for coming out of the East if they want to have a legitimate hope to land him or Kawhi in free agency.

If we aren't in it as the trade deadline approaches I can see Masai making some moves. Something like the year he picked up both Tucker and Ibaka.

[DogeLover1234]

I just mean the Raptors played at a 70 win pace with Gasol in the lineup, a 50 win pace without, had a +10 net rating with him on the court and +4 net rating with him sitting. Worldbeater numbers vs solid team numbers. You can argue plenty that he wouldn't be able to repeat that impact. But that doesn't mean a guy like Baynes will be able to replicate it.

​​​​​

Word, dont think anyone is arguing that we got worse in terms of personnel, thats pretty clear. With or without Gasol the offense was middling, and built largley on cheap buckets which good teams take away in playoff settings. As good as Gasol is defensively, hes anchoring a defense with somewhere between 2-4 other fringe All-NBA defenders. When you put together that much defensive talent with one of the best defensive coaches, yeah you get magic. In this league that leads with what we just saw, a team tough as hell but distinctly not world beater.

If you want to also talk about next season, I still think our bigs can be somewhere between Gasol and Ibaka in impact defensively - given the rest of the lineup that amounts to probably a half to full step back. Nurse will use Baynes + Len as space eaters defensively - probably generating less turnovers but also securing more rebounds. That hurts a lot given how good Kyle and co are in transition. Can we still be a top 5 defense? Yes - but not to the same dominant degree as with Gasol, thats fair. The question for the team now is how does the offense improve? Im optimistic that between internal development and Finch + Nurse cleaning up some of the halfcourt stuff we can stay a league average to above average team. It’ll take a huge leap from Pascal or OG to be anything more than above average there im afraid.

[G__Deane]

So who has the ability for a HUGE leap over last year?

Realistically (somebody will say they all do)

Not Kyle (happy if he doesn't regress much frankly)
Not Freddy (could get better, not huge imo)
Not Siakam (happy just to get back to good/all star)
Not Norm (could just get good consistently)

The two that could make a great leap partially based on the lower tier they're starting from plus potential is OG and Boucher, maybe Davis if he stays.

[golden]

So who has the ability for a HUGE leap over last year?

Realistically (somebody will say they all do)

Not Kyle (happy if he doesn't regress much frankly)
Not Freddy (could get better, not huge imo)
Not Siakam (happy just to get back to good/all star)
Not Norm (could just get good consistently)

The two that could make a great leap partially based on the lower tier they're starting from plus potential is OG and Boucher, maybe Davis if he stays.

Davis, easily.

[planetmars]

So who has the ability for a HUGE leap over last year?

Realistically (somebody will say they all do)

Not Kyle (happy if he doesn't regress much frankly)
Not Freddy (could get better, not huge imo)
Not Siakam (happy just to get back to good/all star)
Not Norm (could just get good consistently)

The two that could make a great leap partially based on the lower tier they're starting from plus potential is OG and Boucher, maybe Davis if he stays.

Boucher probably due to more playing time. But my own dark horse candidate is Matt Thomas. I think Nurse gives him a bit more opportunity, and the entire NBA starts paying attention.

[inthepaint]

So who has the ability for a HUGE leap over last year?

Realistically (somebody will say they all do)

Not Kyle (happy if he doesn't regress much frankly)
Not Freddy (could get better, not huge imo)
Not Siakam (happy just to get back to good/all star)
Not Norm (could just get good consistently)

The two that could make a great leap partially based on the lower tier they're starting from plus potential is OG and Boucher, maybe Davis if he stays.

Whoever gets more consistent minutes compared to last year.

Other than the already established guys, I see pretty much everyone having the potential to take a big step (compared to their last year selves) IF they get the confidence from the coach and actually get the minutes they earn. Thomas, Davis, Watson, Boucher, Flynn and even Norm can all have big years if they get the confidence, rhythm and ability to play through mistakes (and correct them) that come from decent, predictable minutes.

That's a big "if" though. Nurse gets very enamoured with certain players. There's a big difference in mistake tolerance based on pre-established views from prior years. I think we'll see a lot of experimentation at first (out which he may find another favourite to replace the guys that are gone), then he'll set himself with those guys, and the others will only come in situationally to put out fires (then back to the shelf).

Like almost every year injuries may provide some extra time to certain guys, but all in all I can see a fair bit of unrealized potential due to lack of minutes. Guys that are asked to come in cold, make something happen in 5 minutes, then back to the pine indefinitely because they made one mistake ain't taking no leap (even though they totally could if the minutes and tolerance were there)