Everything Off Season

[inthepaint]

If Kawhi never came here and we bowed out (again) in the second round last year to Philly (and we would have) and we bowed out (again) in the second round this year to Boston, I think we'd all be singing a different tune, Masai and Lowry's legacy included.
Think about that.

You can be relevant, you can be competitive, you can be entertaining, you can have a good record, even make the post season.
But you virtually can't win a chip without at least one elite player and a good supporting cast. One example from decades ago doesn't refute that in this era of super teams.

Yes lebron is getting old, yes Durant and Kyrie have been banged up, yes Kawhi/PG/Clips have roster issues etc, Harden/Westbrook can't win when it counts etc

But the Celtics are going to be great for years now, Bucks aren't going to suddenly be terrible, Miami is solid and Dallas and the Nugs have very good and young foundations to build on.

I'm just saying that if Masai doesn't have a few magic beans left, fans here better be prepared to only be decent/good again here for a few years. Bandwagoners be jumpin' .... so not without benefits

Kawhi came via trade, not free agency. You're right in that you certainly need high end talent to win, but there are different ways to generate that on your team. We've done that over the past 6 years and as a result, have been one of the most successful teams over that time. We certainly need go hard in the pursuit of max level free agents, but there's only a limited number of those players around and we literally just won a championship (it's not like we've been the Hornets for the past 5 years). Like you, I sure hope we land a good one, but if not, I'm confident our front office will manage our assets well to improve the team and stay in the mix.

[Dr Hannibal Lecter]

I love 2 c Kawli come back,but honestly raptor nation..u really think he comes back,just think for minute,yeah me as huge raptor fan would love 2 c this happpen,but it ain't happening..sorry

[DanH]

Do you think there is a contrarian scenario where we forego cap room in 2021 to resign FVV, maybe Serge on a 2 year deal and lock up OG on a more reasonable deal than he would sign next summer? Still having tradeable contracts if someone comes available? I mean if Giannis resigns on day 1 of free agency is there value in letting FVV and Serge walk to potentially have a crack at overpaying Oladipo? Just curious your thoughts if everyone else is saving for 2021 maybe there is value in offering OG 4 years $55 million instead of 4 years $85 million a year from now if he has a great season next year.

I mean, there’s a scenario, but it would be surprising considering they have made some effort to line up 2021 the way they have.

I would expect if Serge signs for term it will be for 3 or 4 years, not 2 years.

But yes, if they decide to abandon 2021 it makes sense to retain as much talent as possible, so long as the deals are reasonable. But I would be very surprised if they bailed on 2021, even if Giannis extends immediately this summer. He’s obviously their main target but I don’t think he’s the only one.

[DanH]

Serge is now strictly a 5, so I would expect his comp to be Brook Lopez who got 4 yrs / $52M ($13M AAV). Lopez is All-NBA defense and maybe the best 3-pt shooter from the center position in the league, and still good in the post.

Using Lopez as a benchmark perhaps Serge gets offered something like 11-12M/year for 3 or 4 years $33M to $48M in an uncertain market and teams trying to conserve cash because of Covid and 2021. So, it's possible a 1 year deal for $20M could really entice him. Kind of a bad year to be a mid-tier free agent, one-position, center.

Serge played beside Gasol a good bit this year and had a good bit of success there. But I agree he’s primarily a C.

The MLE is about 10M AAV. So that’s likely the floor for Serge. I don’t know that a one year 20M deal is enough to get him to pass up 40M+ on what might be his last chance for a long term deal. If he only has a 3 year MLE out there for him, yeah, it’s possible, but I doubt that’s all that is there for him. But if he comes cheaper and shorter term than I expect, great. Just not holding my breath.

[GOLDBLUM]

I mean, there’s a scenario, but it would be surprising considering they have made some effort to line up 2021 the way they have.

I would expect if Serge signs for term it will be for 3 or 4 years, not 2 years.

But yes, if they decide to abandon 2021 it makes sense to retain as much talent as possible, so long as the deals are reasonable. But I would be very surprised if they bailed on 2021, even if Giannis extends immediately this summer. He’s obviously their main target but I don’t think he’s the only one.

When you say he’s not the only one.... you’re doing all this juggling for Dipo or Gobert???

What’s the point.

[DanH]

When you say he’s not the only one.... you’re doing all this juggling for Dipo or Gobert???

What’s the point.

All this juggling? All this juggling is essentially just letting Serge walk, for now.

[GOLDBLUM]

Harrell looks more like an imprisoned and heavily in debt version of Adebayo if we're gonna use metaphors.

Respectfully —— really not a fan of this as a metaphor.

Due to the state of systemic racism in America today 1 in 3 Black men will find themselves incarcerated over the course of their lifetime, that’s just an absolutely horrifying statistic.

Same goes for why Black people are more likely to carry larger debt than white people.

I realize you’re comparing two Black people, but nevertheless... maybe we can save the questionable carceral metaphors for the spreecihcnze politics thread?

[GOLDBLUM]

All this juggling? All this juggling is essentially just letting Serge walk, for now.

I mean like making sure that the cap is in line for 2021... if it’s not Giannis, then really, what’s the point. You said he’s not the only one. Who’s coming through that door to save us as a free agent?

[inthepaint]

When you say he’s not the only one.... you’re doing all this juggling for Dipo or Gobert???

What’s the point.

Yeah there's a balance to be found on this one. If we let players walk for nothing just to save cap space there's a chance of being like the Knicks situation last year, when they let Porzingis go, opened up space, and nobody came. On the other hand, if we retain our rotation players from the championship run plus our picks, we can be strong in the trade market with good, movable contracts, if we need to.

Looks like it might come down to which market we want to be stronger in, free agency or trade. The 2021 Free agency class look stacked at first, but there's a very strong chance all the top players stay with their current teams. The way Masai timed the expiring of the contracts a couple of years back pointed that was the goal, but he might be thinking of pivoting here, because the trade pool might prove to be stronger than the FA pool for us.

The tough part for the front office is to forecast who's really gonna be in the market by the trade deadline and by next summer free agency. That's tough to do without knowing how the season is going to unfold, but that's why they get the big bucks

[The Claw Reborn]

I mean like making sure that the cap is in line for 2021... if it’s not Giannis, then really, what’s the point. You said he’s not the only one. Who’s coming through that door to save us as a free agent?

I can tell, looking beyond what is in front of you is not your strongest suit, so I strongly recommend you stick with what makes you a superstar in this forum...two of your strongest points, making gifs and always piggybacking your ideas with that resident RR hounder.

Not getting Giannis is not end of this franchise’s attempt to get another chip. Let the people that make the big bucks make those decisions.

[GOLDBLUM]

I can tell, looking beyond what is in front of you is not your strongest suit, so I strongly recommend you stick with what makes you a superstar in this forum...two of your strongest points, making gifs and always piggybacking your ideas with that resident RR hounder.

Not getting Giannis is not end of this franchise’s attempt to get another chip. Let the people that make the big bucks make those decisions.

When did I say not getting Giannis is the end of our future championship aspirations? (If we’re speaking of strong-suits, comprehension has never been yours.)

No part of me thinks we can’t remain competitive and run for another chip at some point in the near future. And that won’t hinge solely on whether or not we win the Giannis sweepstakes, though that would certainly help.

I’m simply asking, if every last thing we’re doing is geared with laser focus towards maintaining space for 2021, at the expensive of all other possibilities... is that a potentially myopic way of doing business? While I strongly hope it does come through, our plan A very likely may not.

I’m all for doing what we can to keep our options open. I’m also inquiring from people who I respect and who have insight that I value. (This does not include what you contribute around here.... I thought you left with Demar?)

Sorry mods, descending into infighting here. That’s ... what makes Claw a superstar, I guess?

[saints91]

Miami has basically replicated what we did last year. They drafted well, Josh Richardson, Tyler Herro, Bam, ect. and then leveraged some of that talent to build a team through trades. It helps that Jimmy wanted to go there as a free agent, but I think it's a method to be a contender.

We may not be legit contenders for the next few years, but we will stay a competitive, attractive franchise. If the front office drafts correctly, develops players, and signs guys that are under preforming in other markets, then we have a franchise full of assets. You build your teams depth, and hope you can move a few of those assets to net a top 15 player.

I think the Raps could follow this model again, maybe we wouldn't get a top 3 player again(Kawhi's situation was a perfect storm), but we may get a top 15 and be able to resign him.

[Scraptor]

Miami has basically replicated what we did last year. They drafted well, Josh Richardson, Tyler Herro, Bam, ect. and then leveraged some of that talent to build a team through trades. It helps that Jimmy wanted to go there as a free agent, but I think it's a method to be a contender.

We may not be legit contenders for the next few years, but we will stay a competitive, attractive franchise. If the front office drafts correctly, develops players, and signs guys that are under preforming in other markets, then we have a franchise full of assets. You build your teams depth, and hope you can move a few of those assets to net a top 15 player.

I think the Raps could follow this model again, maybe we wouldn't get a top 3 player again(Kawhi's situation was a perfect storm), but we may get a top 15 and be able to resign him.

I think the last couple of years has basically proved that you need a superstar level player to win a title. Jimmy Butler is a top 15 player, and he may get them to the Finals, but I doubt it will be enough beat LeBron + AD.

If we strike out on Giannis it is probably going to feel a little like the Derozan era (largely because Kyle isn't getting any younger). Good enough for 50 wins every year but not quite good enough to make the Finals. Vegas has us basically in the same slot as the Derozan era (8-9th to win the title, 25-1 in 2017) https://twitter.com/DavidPurdum/stat...30782005321729.

I would be really curious to see what Masai could do with a treasure chest of draft picks like Presti has collected, but I doubt we go that route.

Lot of uncertainty, but Masai is a magician, so just gotta embrace it and let him do his thing.

[planetmars]

Kyle isn't getting any younger.. but he still has I think 3 years of "super star" play in him. I would rather bet on Kyle then Fred, despite Fred being 8 years younger.

Siakam/Kyle/OG is the trifecta we continue to ride with until we can bring in a guy that can complement those three. That team can compete with the Tatum/Brown/Kemba's and the Butler/Bam/Robinson/Duncan's of the NBA.

Siakam's playoffs was a travesty but I think it was a one off situation. I think he'll rebound.

If Giannis is willing to come to Toronto.. that would be awesome. But if not, we go look for a type B star that can complement those three guys. Preferably a guard that is taller than 6'0. Jrue's name comes up a lot because he would really fit our team's culture (hard nosed defender, but can also put up 15-18ppg). Golden mentioned LaVine. I think he'd be a great fit too. I think he's could be as good a defender as someone like Curry and Harden are. Meaning I think he can be an average defender and not be a liability.

Plus we have Matt and Terrence in our system. Those guys could really develop into all-star caliber players or in Matt's case a high end role player like Duncan Robinson is for the Heat. They just need more opportunity. But right now Fred is in their way.

[saints91]

If we strike out in 2021 I can see Masai using the cap room to get more draft picks. Atlanta and Memphis have been a dumping ground in the past. It might be okay with Siakam and OG as the core...and possibly Freddy. Anything to get more picks into Masai hands.

You don’t have to tank to find a superstar, while you may have a greater chance there are still many players that have dropped into the teens and later.