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  • DanH wrote: View Post
    I wonder if the Raps look to use their available salary this summer to try to extract Poeltl from the Spurs?

    They can use their MLE to offer him a 2 year deal at about 10M, with the 2nd year unguaranteed. Or if they do let Fred go to too hot a market, they will suddenly potentially have about 15-20M in cap room, which could make for a big offer (again, 2 years, 2nd unguaranteed).

    They would still be in tough to keep him if they land a star FA (though it would be an option, could weigh keeping him versus Lowry depending on contract demands).
    Other than spacing the floor and being a consistent PnR lob threat... Jakob is a great idea. He really has a knack for those offensive rebounds and has improved his defensive rebounding & passing since he left. Chemistry & intangibles goes without saying.

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    • planetmars wrote: View Post

      Dirk was making $25M in 2016. He took $5M in 2017 and 2018. He was 39 and 40 those years.

      I think Kyle will want at least $20M until he gets to the age of 38-39. He's not going to take those $5M contracts starting in 2021. He's "only 34" but was an all-star. And had a great playoff run.

      Even Tim Duncan was making about $10M a year from ages 34-37. He made $5M in his last two seasons (ages 38 and 39).

      I don't believe we can't afford Kyle at $10M if we're looking at Giannis in 2021.
      Well, this would be a slightly different situation. We wouldn't be asking Lowry to stay cheap. Just to be cheap for one year. And yes, there is every chance he would not be interested in that, but it's not quite a direct comparison to those cases, where those stars took years of decreased salary to help the team add talent every year - this would be explicitly a one time deal.
      twitter.com/dhackett1565

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      • golden wrote: View Post

        What planetmars said. Point stands.
        Yeah, it's an argument with 100 minute samples which make up between 1/10th and 1/20th of these players' seasons. There's a reason we need to evaluate players with more than just one approach - I personally like combining on-court, lineup, production and impact metrics to get a good full picture. But you are of course free to think Powell in Fred's place would be better. Just don't throw out team records with players in the lineup and think that's the be all end all when we both know there is a lot of context to shake out of that.
        twitter.com/dhackett1565

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        • golden wrote: View Post

          Other than the 3-point shot, Rondo is basically the high IQ floor general type of PG you described. He's completely turned around the Lakers from when they entered the bubble. Dragic is not at Lowry BBIQ level, but he's pretty good overall and better at other things (shot creation, finishing) which might not age well.

          As for TD... Lowry didn't become Lowry until he was on his third team. Seems like the league is trending younger, though. A lot of good young players on the horizon.
          Yeah Rondo, Dragic and also Chris Paul and Mike Conley are all in that mould, great court awareness, enhancing the game of whoever they're playing with. They're all around Lowry's age though. Older and seasoned PG's are not a bad thing to have, they can be the general/coach on the floor, and it feels like lot of the fine nuances of the game only really become second nature after 10+ years. The legs gotta be there to match the brain though. That's why is tough to set yourself a long term point guard for the future; the young bucks can be scoring/shooting machines but the art of truly running the offence when things get tight usually come later, and with reps.

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          • LJ2 wrote: View Post

            De'Aaron Fox reminds me a bit of Lowry. He doesn't have the 3pt shooting (yet), but he has a way of making the players around him better when he's on the floor.
            Yeah De'Aron Fox, Trae Young and Gilgeous-Alexander are on the path to become the next classic PG's in the league. The other one if of course Doncic, but then again he's been playing since he was like 12 or something.

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            • G__Deane wrote: View Post

              A lot of this discussion sounds like "yah we struck out on a major free agent but we can afford to pay the same crew more money to be decent and flame out in the second round again"

              Not enough guys here seem to want to get better. Didn't any of you get MORE hungry after the chip?
              It's hard for me to get too concerned about this stuff this offseason. Toronto just won a title, which seemed like it would never happen in my lifetime, so I'm good as a fan for a few years. Plus, so much can change in 1 offseason, let alone 2. I mean, Raps had 4 different starters year-over-year when they won the championship and traded away two long-time Raps to do so.

              For the Raps, no window is closing, no superstar is in the final year of a deal and they aren't wasting a young star's career. There is no need to panic. And, given how they have built and gone for it and won, I have no worries that if the opportunity comes, management won't do what is necessary to make it happen.

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              • DanH wrote: View Post
                I wonder if the Raps look to use their available salary this summer to try to extract Poeltl from the Spurs?

                They can use their MLE to offer him a 2 year deal at about 10M, with the 2nd year unguaranteed. Or if they do let Fred go to too hot a market, they will suddenly potentially have about 15-20M in cap room, which could make for a big offer (again, 2 years, 2nd unguaranteed).

                They would still be in tough to keep him if they land a star FA (though it would be an option, could weigh keeping him versus Lowry depending on contract demands).
                I'd love to get Poeltl back.

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                • slaw wrote: View Post

                  It's hard for me to get too concerned about this stuff this offseason. Toronto just won a title, which seemed like it would never happen in my lifetime, so I'm good as a fan for a few years. Plus, so much can change in 1 offseason, let alone 2. I mean, Raps had 4 different starters year-over-year when they won the championship and traded away two long-time Raps to do so.

                  For the Raps, no window is closing, no superstar is in the final year of a deal and they aren't wasting a young star's career. There is no need to panic. And, given how they have built and gone for it and won, I have no worries that if the opportunity comes, management won't do what is necessary to make it happen.
                  Yeah, I'm with you there, slaw. I'm pretty much set for at least a few years. It's all gravy from here. I saw the Jays win twice and was in the stands when Joe Carter hit that series winner. I've seen the Raps win it all. It was the logical conclusion of the #WeTheNorth Era. So..... now.... about those Leafs?

                  Raps seem like we're following the Mavericks path: be really competitive for a bunch of years, win a surprise chip, and then drift for a few years as 'pseudo contenders' or lower, until we find our Luka.

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                  • Maury wrote: View Post

                    I'd love to get Poeltl back.
                    I think there was a time when Masai was rumoured to be after Nerlens Noel. Not sure if that was true or not, but I imagine he would be a pretty cheap pick up and Masai seems to always get his man...eventually.

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                    • I'd also like to see Masai get some picks. He's got such a great track record for drafting and the franchise goes to to such great lengths to invest in player development. Makes me wonder why they don't explore this option more.

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                      • No one will ever replace Kyle lets get used to that. Best Raptor ever has to retire here

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                        • golden wrote: View Post

                          Yeah, I'm with you there, slaw. I'm pretty much set for at least a few years. It's all gravy from here. I saw the Jays win twice and was in the stands when Joe Carter hit that series winner. I've seen the Raps win it all. It was the logical conclusion of the #WeTheNorth Era. So..... now.... about those Leafs?

                          Raps seem like we're following the Mavericks path: be really competitive for a bunch of years, win a surprise chip, and then drift for a few years as 'pseudo contenders' or lower, until we find our Luka.
                          Know you're not saying this but interesting comparison there - Cuban made the mistake of clearing the cap sheet of a championship roster because he was convinced he'd land a big FA to stay at the top, but he never could. Then had to keep filling out the roster with Plan B and Plan C players instead, kind of middling along through the rest of the Dirk years.

                          That's exactly the kind of mistake the Raptors should not, and I think will not, make. That's what could happen if you let too many of FVV/Lowry/Ibaka/Gasol walk off the books. You need to keep some pieces just so you have tradeable assets, or else you paint yourself into a corner and/or hang your entire future on the pipe dream of a big name FA signing that may or may not happen.

                          Raptors are well positioned right now to keep both options open, enough assets and control over the assets to move forward with trade options while still providing themselves with 1 max FA space for 2021. Smart.
                          "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

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                          • Let fred walk. He’ll command too much. Powell, thomas, td difference is negligible and a lot cheaper. Fred saved us in the final but we lost more because of his cold streaks last playoffs and this one. His only passes are to kyle at the top of the key. We wont be able to ship him for anything at 20m next season. I like fred hes pro but..

                            We need a young pg to start learning from kyle.

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                            • S.R. wrote: View Post

                              Know you're not saying this but interesting comparison there - Cuban made the mistake of clearing the cap sheet of a championship roster because he was convinced he'd land a big FA to stay at the top, but he never could. Then had to keep filling out the roster with Plan B and Plan C players instead, kind of middling along through the rest of the Dirk years.

                              That's exactly the kind of mistake the Raptors should not, and I think will not, make. That's what could happen if you let too many of FVV/Lowry/Ibaka/Gasol walk off the books. You need to keep some pieces just so you have tradeable assets, or else you paint yourself into a corner and/or hang your entire future on the pipe dream of a big name FA signing that may or may not happen.

                              Raptors are well positioned right now to keep both options open, enough assets and control over the assets to move forward with trade options while still providing themselves with 1 max FA space for 2021. Smart.
                              That Mavs team was fairly old: Tyson Chandler, Jason Kidd, Shawn Marion, Jason Terry, Peja... in addition to Dirk. Did anybody think that running back that team was going to lead to another championship? Especially when you look at the other contending teams that won next. Refreshing that roster was probably the right move, tbh.

                              The real mistake was signing middling younger FA guys like Chandler Parsons & Harrison Barnes to max contracts..... know what I'm saying?

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                              • LJ2 wrote: View Post
                                I'd also like to see Masai get some picks. He's got such a great track record for drafting and the franchise goes to to such great lengths to invest in player development. Makes me wonder why they don't explore this option more.
                                They seem to be able to find guys just fine without paying or trading for more picks, so why waste resources?

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