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  • Rudy Bargnani wrote: View Post

    What do you think the approach should be? You talking tanking?
    No I want to actually sign a significant FA for perhaps the first time in team history and actually get better without it being a complete surprise

    I'm told it's not possible this season for I'm hoping for 2021.

    I hate the whole how do we hang onto Fred unless Serge goes, we need to let Fred walk so we can pay this guy more. But it's always our own guys were trying to hang on to or not let walk. When do we steal somebody else's prime rib and shake this idea that no one actually wants to play here until after they're traded against their will?

    And yes, Kyle and DeRozan extended but I'm talkin' prime grade A free agent ....

    We won a chip, something that players play their whole careers and miss out on. We have the reigning Coach Of the Year and the best management in the NBA. A great stadium, rabid fans and tons of dough re me. They should be lining up, F the weather when they don't seem to have a problem with Chicago, Boston or New York.

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    • G__Deane wrote: View Post

      No I want to actually sign a significant FA for perhaps the first time in team history and actually get better without it being a complete surprise

      I'm told it's not possible this season for I'm hoping for 2021.

      I hate the whole how do we hang onto Fred unless Serge goes, we need to let Fred walk so we can pay this guy more. But it's always our own guys were trying to hang on to or not let walk. When do we steal somebody else's prime rib and shake this idea that no one actually wants to play here until after they're traded against their will?

      And yes, Kyle and DeRozan extended but I'm talkin' prime grade A free agent ....

      We won a chip, something that players play their whole careers and miss out on. We have the reigning Coach Of the Year and the best management in the NBA. A great stadium, rabid fans and tons of dough re me. They should be lining up, F the weather when they don't seem to have a problem with Chicago, Boston or New York.
      I hear you, that would be great. There are legit no grade A free agents this year so the most exciting thing to talk about is Fred and Serge. And most of the talk is how to position the salaries so we can go after a grade A free agent when one comes available next.
      The free agency class this year is pretty weak. Some people would say the top free agents available in the entire NBA this offseason are VanVleet, Serge Ibaka, and Montrez Harrell. Especially that Golden guy that posts here, he loves FVV.

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      • golden wrote: View Post

        That Mavs team was fairly old: Tyson Chandler, Jason Kidd, Shawn Marion, Jason Terry, Peja... in addition to Dirk. Did anybody think that running back that team was going to lead to another championship? Especially when you look at the other contending teams that won next. Refreshing that roster was probably the right move, tbh.

        The real mistake was signing middling younger FA guys like Chandler Parsons & Harrison Barnes to max contracts..... know what I'm saying?
        Like I said, the Mavericks kept clearing cap space and whiffing on their prime FA targets, like Deron Williams. They ended up signing a bunch of middling players instead and were stuck as a middling franchise for a few years. Don't let your talent walk for nothing and put all your eggs in the FA basket. Texas is supposed to be a lure, state taxes and all that. Deep pockets owner. Recent team success. Couldn't get it done.
        "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

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        • LJ2 wrote: View Post

          I dunno, OG is great but right now he's definitely only shown he can be a role player. That's not a bad thing, but Lowry does so many more things on the floor including creating plays for himself and others, leadership, can be the best player on the floor against a lot of teams etc. Lowry is like a hybrid or tweener between an All Star and a Superstar.
          Yeah I wasnt thinking this year, but Lowry has a couple left in the tank I reckon. Just get some similar vibes from OG I do with Lowry, both fly all over the court on defense and arent afraid of anyone - they make winning plays. Offensively OG has a ways to go before replacing Lowry, just think he has the best chance of anyone to fill a role there. That being said Ive always been impressed by his passing, hes got good instincts just really needs polish.

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          • Rudy Bargnani wrote: View Post

            I hear you, that would be great. There are legit no grade A free agents this year so the most exciting thing to talk about is Fred and Serge. And most of the talk is how to position the salaries so we can go after a grade A free agent when one comes available next.
            The free agency class this year is pretty weak. Some people would say the top free agents available in the entire NBA this offseason are VanVleet, Serge Ibaka, and Montrez Harrell. Especially that Golden guy that posts here, he loves FVV.
            Heard a lot about the compare for Freddy being Malcom Brogdon.
            So where do you rank Freddy in terms of talent?

            Is he as good as Malcom Brogdon.. a combo guard who can shoot from 3, play defense and handle the ball if he has to as well..but Malcom’s a lot bigger... Malcom’s getting 4 and $85 ..$21 AAV.

            Do you pay Freddy that baseline..or more..or less.?

            I can see Fred happy with that deal....and prolly unhappy at 4 and 60.




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            • Demographic Shift wrote: View Post

              Heard a lot about the compare for Freddy being Malcom Brogdon.
              So where do you rank Freddy in terms of talent?

              Is he as good as Malcom Brogdon.. a combo guard who can shoot from 3, play defense and handle the ball if he has to as well..but Malcom’s a lot bigger... Malcom’s getting 4 and $85 ..$21 AAV.

              Do you pay Freddy that baseline..or more..or less.?

              I can see Fred happy with that deal....and prolly unhappy at 4 and 60.



              Given the FA class, there is likely going to be some teams looking at FVV, especially given how many teams need guard help (like half the league). If you want to lure him from Toronto you need to pay a premium, so I would assume Brogdon is the starting point. Toronto has two advantages with the extra year and they could pay him slightly more than Brogdon without souring the relationship. Brogdon money likely won’t get it done for another team.

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              • Demographic Shift wrote: View Post

                Heard a lot about the compare for Freddy being Malcom Brogdon.
                So where do you rank Freddy in terms of talent?

                Is he as good as Malcom Brogdon.. a combo guard who can shoot from 3, play defense and handle the ball if he has to as well..but Malcom’s a lot bigger... Malcom’s getting 4 and $85 ..$21 AAV.

                Do you pay Freddy that baseline..or more..or less.?

                I can see Fred happy with that deal....and prolly unhappy at 4 and 60.



                Brogdon is a fair comparable in my opinion. Though he was a 50/40/90 guy when he signed the contract. He shot the 3 worse than van vleet this season. But Fred has a championship ring, a finals MVP vote, and guarded Steph Curry in the NBA finals. Teams pay a premium for guys with playoff experience. Fortunately a lot of those teams don't have cap space.

                I'd be happy with 4 years 80 mill and a lower salary in year 2. If someone else offers more maybe he takes 5 years 100 miill and that is still 20 mill and in my opinion a tradeable contract if necessary.

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                • Demographic Shift wrote: View Post

                  Heard a lot about the compare for Freddy being Malcom Brogdon.
                  So where do you rank Freddy in terms of talent?

                  Is he as good as Malcom Brogdon.. a combo guard who can shoot from 3, play defense and handle the ball if he has to as well..but Malcom’s a lot bigger... Malcom’s getting 4 and $85 ..$21 AAV.

                  Do you pay Freddy that baseline..or more..or less.?

                  I can see Fred happy with that deal....and prolly unhappy at 4 and 60.
                  Those are probably good numbers to look at.
                  Fred's not signing for 15M and 20 is the bleeding edge where if we get him there, it's probably decent value where you can still complain it was an overpay when you hit those games where his height and other shortcomings (see what I did there) are exposed.

                  If he wants 22-25 AAV, I let him walk and it would suck initially but maybe feel we dodged a bullet.
                  Last edited by G__Deane; Mon Sep 21st, 2020, 09:43 PM.

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                  • Yuri Gagarin wrote: View Post
                    Let fred walk. He’ll command too much. Powell, thomas, td difference is negligible and a lot cheaper. Fred saved us in the final but we lost more because of his cold streaks last playoffs and this one. His only passes are to kyle at the top of the key. We wont be able to ship him for anything at 20m next season. I like fred hes pro but..

                    We need a young pg to start learning from kyle.
                    Fred averaged more assist per game to buckets by:
                    Siakam
                    Serge
                    OG
                    Norm
                    and Gasol

                    ... than to Lowry.

                    He also made more passes per game to Gasol and Siakam despite the two ball handling guards passing to each other actually being a pretty obvious action to occur.

                    If we sign him for 20M, it will not be to trade him. It will be to keep him long term. So if they don't want to keep him long term, they should not sign him.
                    twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                    • G__Deane wrote: View Post

                      Those are probably good numbers to look at.
                      Fred's not signing for 15M and 20 is the bleeding edge where if we get him there, it's probably decent value where you can still complain it was an overpay when you hit those games where his height and other shortcomings (see what I did there) are exposed.

                      If he wants 22-25 AAV, I let him walk and it would suck initially but maybe feel we dodged a bullet.
                      Now that Pascal got his 2nd team salary bump, all the numbers agree with this assessment. About 20M is the acceptable range for Fred. Your no-go range there is about right.
                      twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                      • DanH wrote: View Post

                        Now that Pascal got his 2nd team salary bump, all the numbers agree with this assessment. About 20M is the acceptable range for Fred. Your no-go range there is about right.
                        i think he gets between19.5-20 from us but a 5 year deal.

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                        • Don't get me wrong, I love FV game, but u can't go overboard with his contract, I'm telling Knicks or Pistons will offer 25 million per for 4 years...100 million, I'm ok with 80 million,20 million per..honestly I wouldn't care what he gets, but there is cap and u can't go crazy,plus u gotta sign OG..his more important than FV, this off-season he must get extension or risk going next year with breakout year and paying more..
                          "Never apologize for coming to me. Office hours are for patients.
                          My kitchen is always open to friends"

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                          • Dr Hannibal Lecter wrote: View Post
                            Don't get me wrong, I love FV game, but u can't go overboard with his contract, I'm telling Knicks or Pistons will offer 25 million per for 4 years...100 million, I'm ok with 80 million,20 million per..honestly I wouldn't care what he gets, but there is cap and u can't go crazy,plus u gotta sign OG..his more important than FV, this off-season he must get extension or risk going next year with breakout year and paying more..
                            But if they give him an extension this summer, that hurts our chances to land Giannis. They'd probably rather risk a bigger payday for OG to maintain their flexibility next summer.

                            And if YOU know OG will likely get paid more next summer, you'd better believe OG and his agent do too, which means an extension now won't be cheap.
                            twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                            • S.R. wrote: View Post

                              Like I said, the Mavericks kept clearing cap space and whiffing on their prime FA targets, like Deron Williams. They ended up signing a bunch of middling players instead and were stuck as a middling franchise for a few years. Don't let your talent walk for nothing and put all your eggs in the FA basket. Texas is supposed to be a lure, state taxes and all that. Deep pockets owner. Recent team success. Couldn't get it done.
                              I don't know about "letting your talent walk for nothing" critique. The Mavs did bring back the core of the championship team, except Tyson Chandler and some minor bit role players (Caron Butler, DeShawn Stevenson & JJ Barea). Not re-signing Tyson Chandler is a valid criticism, but seriously, Tyson Chandler wasn't going to get them past OKC and the Spurs, and the Heat again.

                              In hindsight, that championship team is now viewed as a major fluke by most. Pretty much all of those guys were on their last legs and they weren't going to get much return for that "talent" they let walk. The opposite might actually be true... Mavs should have sold high on everybody, immediately after the championship. The talent of that core got exposed the year after.

                              Overpaying for free agents (even your own.... hint... hint...) is the main lesson here.
                              Last edited by golden; Tue Sep 22nd, 2020, 09:47 AM.

                              Comment


                              • So as we plough into offseason with all the thoughts and ideas that can get les raptors back into position to be the defacto Eastern Conference representative in the NBA Finals … heres a few more.

                                Who is the core 3 or 4 of the Raps regardless of what happens in FA this year or next ? Caveat is that Lowry as good as this guy still is…. IS NOT a core piece based solely on timeline.

                                My vote is Pascal, OG, Freddy and I’m going to take flack for it but I keep Norm based on continuity and timeline and a very very very teamfriendly deal. .

                                You are now in GMS shoes… Whats the plan for next season ?
                                Roll it back (within the tax apron) and remain as competitive as you can get ?
                                Or
                                Roll some of it back. The pieces you believe will be your core… as you position the cap with the bold strategy and career defining move by attracting an 2x MVP winner to your program. Serious SWAG to Massai if he can do this. Rainmaker status in the NBA. He’s up to it as well. He points to the realization of the Giants of Africa … a front line of Pascal , OG and the Alphabet winning an NBA title

                                The Raps half court offense needs, really really needs, a get your own shot wing. Who is that guy if you make a can’t believe the value for money trade or FA acquisition ?

                                Who is the guy ?

                                My pick is Brandon Ingram. Max contract RFA. Possible ? Yes. Likely. Low.


                                All rebutals welcome.

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