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  • S.R. wrote: View Post

    Yeah, Oladipo's problematic for those reasons. Raptors are more or less in the same position as pre-Kawhi - they make a next step at this point by adding a legit, top 10 type guy who can be the best player on a championship team. Anything short of that and you're probably just treading water.
    And don't forget the catastrophic injury. He does not look right out there.

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    • Maury wrote: View Post

      During his best year, he played like a top 15 player. People thought he still had room to improve.
      It felt a lot like Dipo hit his peak that season, which now feels like ages ago. He had an extended bonus rest this year and still looked meh.

      And a lot of young guys have surpassed him. We weren't talking about Doncic, Booker, Murray, Jokic, Bam and Siakam & Tatum being better than Dipo back then, were we? Is Dipo even top 30 anymore?

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      • I'd do a S&T if Fred wants to go to Indy.. and then see what happens in 2021. If Giannis is not an option at least we have a backup option assuming Dipo wants to stay. If he doesn't or he just continues to be meh, then we free up cap space anyway. It's not a completely terrible idea, but I'd only do it if Fred wants to go to Indy, and Indy is okay with a S&T.

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        • What would be in it for Indy? I mean if the idea is that Dipo is the better player then why would they give that up for FVV, who will be paid the same if not more?

          I think Indy is probably hoping and praying Dipo is fully healthy for next season and that Warren's success in the bubble was no fluke. I doubt they want to break them up...Indiana isn't exactly a hot spot for free agents, so they probably will ride out the internal growth mantra for as long as they can with their fans.

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          • I'm curious what Houston does in the off season. They need a new coach but one that can run the same system as D'antoni, and the only guy I can think of to do that just got the Brooklyn Nets job. How interesting would that have been?

            Or, Houston revamps their roster yet again.

            Or, they finally trade Harden and end what has been a futile run at a championship. I'm surprised there is not more trade chatter surrounding Harden right now.

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            • Quirk wrote: View Post
              I really have no idea why anyone really wants Oladipo. He's a average NBA starter who had one really good season where he played 75 games, he's 28 years old, never played a whole season. I mean he's a good player, but certainly not 1st tier star.
              Oladipo is alright but the only reason people are talking about him on this board is that if Giannis is not in play, he's probably the "second best" free agent realistic available on that year (him and Gobert), which tells us that class is not nearly as stacked as people initially thought. When you look at the 2021 FA names and see Kawhi, Lebron, AD and Giannis, it's like "wow, there's gonna be a bonanza of free agents up for grabs that year", but the truth is in all likelihood these guys will all stay with their current teams.

              Since 2021 free agency has been in the works for the Raptors for so long, people start looking at guys like Oladipo and Gobert as some sort of "plan B" in case we don't get Giannis (which is by far the more likely outcome), so that plan can be "validated" and we get the white whale "max free agent" regardless.

              The thing is guys like Oladipo and Gobert, albeit commanding max or near max salary, are nowhere near the same tier as Giannis, Kawhi, Lebron & AD. Because of that, to me it's prudent to also consider other avenues to improve the team, like for example retaining our core of champions with good, tradable contracts that can be moved (along with picks coming or going) to gradually improve/balance the team

              That's not nearly as exciting as landing a big fish though. That's what a big part of the fanbase wants no matter what. So what's more likely to happen is we're gonna maneuver to save that cap space, make a solid pitch for Giannis but fail, and end up with with someone like Oladipo (either that or become a team with enough cap space bad contracts attached to picks can be put on, like we did with Carroll on the Nets). Either way I think we'll continue to improve, but it might not be through the means we're anticipating.
              2019 NBA Champions. Glad to have doubted the doubters.

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              • I think it’s obvious to everyone that it is more likely we don’t get Giannis than that we do. But that doesn’t change whether we should try.

                No one is suggesting losing core players. Ibaka isn’t that good. Fred, if he is let go, will be gone because he is overpaid, which doesn’t help no matter what avenue for improvement you are pursuing. Boucher is a prospect who is approaching 30.

                If a true superstar became available in trade between now and summer 2021 and we could pull it off, we would go for it. Outside of that though, nothing improves our chances of landing a star as much as keeping the flexibility to take a shot at Giannis (or Kawhi, AD though is a 2020 free agent).
                twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                • LJ2 wrote: View Post
                  What would be in it for Indy? I mean if the idea is that Dipo is the better player then why would they give that up for FVV, who will be paid the same if not more?

                  I think Indy is probably hoping and praying Dipo is fully healthy for next season and that Warren's success in the bubble was no fluke. I doubt they want to break them up...Indiana isn't exactly a hot spot for free agents, so they probably will ride out the internal growth mantra for as long as they can with their fans.
                  The presumption is that they will lose Dipo for nothing if they hold on to him and he bails in free agency (which seems likely) in 2021. So they may want to trade him now before he walks away in a year. Fred isn't a bad replacement for them especially considering they will never be a free agent destination.

                  For the Raptors they get a guy that replaces Fred, possibly better than him, could be worse (depending on his recovery over the off season). The Raptors want space in 2021 not 2020, so can afford taking the big expiring contract even if he leaves in free agency.

                  The problem is a trade is not so simple since Fred's incoming value would be half his new contract. So if he took a $20M deal, he'd only be worth $10M in a trade, yet Dipo is worth $21M. So an additional $6M by the Raps would have to be tacked on that the Pacers could just absorb. McCaw and Stanley only make about $4M. Might need a 3rd team or send them Powell too which would be too big of a loss I think for the Raptors. If Fred takes $25M (which I doubt Indiana would pay).. then his incoming value would be $12.5M and adding a McCaw would add up to $16.5M and that can be used to trade for Dipo.

                  Miami needed 4 teams to do the Butler S&T last season. So it's not entirely impossible.. but there could be something there.

                  But it all hinges on whether Fred wants to play in Indiana or not. And my point again is that I'd only be happy bringing in Dipo if we traded him for Fred. Which would require a lot of things to connect and so is probably unlikely.

                  Comment


                  • LJ2 wrote: View Post
                    I'm curious what Houston does in the off season. They need a new coach but one that can run the same system as D'antoni, and the only guy I can think of to do that just got the Brooklyn Nets job. How interesting would that have been?

                    Or, Houston revamps their roster yet again.

                    Or, they finally trade Harden and end what has been a futile run at a championship. I'm surprised there is not more trade chatter surrounding Harden right now.
                    Rumor is that philly is not only going after dantoni but also looking at trying to get harden on a trade. Not sure is houston would want simmions or embid. But brand put them in a bad spot and now they basically have to go for it before their corner stone guys got a chance to mature
                    To be the champs you got to beat the champs

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                    • planetmars wrote: View Post

                      The presumption is that they will lose Dipo for nothing if they hold on to him and he bails in free agency (which seems likely) in 2021. So they may want to trade him now before he walks away in a year. Fred isn't a bad replacement for them especially considering they will never be a free agent destination.

                      For the Raptors they get a guy that replaces Fred, possibly better than him, could be worse (depending on his recovery over the off season). The Raptors want space in 2021 not 2020, so can afford taking the big expiring contract even if he leaves in free agency.

                      The problem is a trade is not so simple since Fred's incoming value would be half his new contract. So if he took a $20M deal, he'd only be worth $10M in a trade, yet Dipo is worth $21M. So an additional $6M by the Raps would have to be tacked on that the Pacers could just absorb. McCaw and Stanley only make about $4M. Might need a 3rd team or send them Powell too which would be too big of a loss I think for the Raptors. If Fred takes $25M (which I doubt Indiana would pay).. then his incoming value would be $12.5M and adding a McCaw would add up to $16.5M and that can be used to trade for Dipo.

                      Miami needed 4 teams to do the Butler S&T last season. So it's not entirely impossible.. but there could be something there.

                      But it all hinges on whether Fred wants to play in Indiana or not. And my point again is that I'd only be happy bringing in Dipo if we traded him for Fred. Which would require a lot of things to connect and so is probably unlikely.

                      Raptor fans gotta ask your self..who is better player Oladipo or Fred..
                      Yes..we saw what fred did last year in playoffs,he brought it and his good supporting player with great player like Kawli,but you saw what happens when raps didn't have that player,they strugle.As for Oladipo when healthy is on another level than Fred Vanvleet. Oladipo is an allstar, is a superstar, the guy is scary..
                      Anyway either way,if we keep Freddy,I'm cool with it,as long as it doesn't hurt as in long run,when it comes 2 cap..and if we can't sign him,than we should definitely go after Oladipo hard.
                      "Never apologize for coming to me. Office hours are for patients.
                      My kitchen is always open to friends"

                      Comment


                      • I see us falling back and simply being competitive for the next few years, fans don't like the term treadmill team.
                        Masai has to pull off his best move yet, or ever. Giannis or bust.

                        Either that or you might as well bring DeMar back and look forward to a lot of 2nd round exits. Changes have to come this year and particularly next.

                        Comment


                        • G__Deane wrote: View Post
                          I see us falling back and simply being competitive for the next few years, fans don't like the term treadmill team.
                          Masai has to pull off his best move yet, or ever. Giannis or bust.

                          Either that or you might as well bring DeMar back and look forward to a lot of 2nd round exits. Changes have to come this year and particularly next.
                          I dont totally get this point of view. We were a couple silly mistakes away from going to the conference finals against a very good, but beatable team. Its pretty obvious the team has holes, but the foundation is sound. I like Lowry too much to waste a year waiting around.

                          Its not Giannis or bust. We need a boost of talent, but thats pretty typical for sustained success. Improve the big rotation, keep Fred at a fair price, draft and develop. Id shop Norm for a long-term piece and see what you have in TD & Thomas - one should be able to produce in year 2. So long as you sign fair contracts term shouldnt be a killer if a better player becomes available. This management and coaching staff has proved themselves to the point we shouldnt have to wait around for a singular FA decision in a year. Keep getting better and go from there.

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                          • DogeLover1234 wrote: View Post

                            I dont totally get this point of view. We were a couple silly mistakes away from going to the conference finals against a very good, but beatable team. Its pretty obvious the team has holes, but the foundation is sound. I like Lowry too much to waste a year waiting around.

                            Its not Giannis or bust. We need a boost of talent, but thats pretty typical for sustained success. Improve the big rotation, keep Fred at a fair price, draft and develop. Id shop Norm for a long-term piece and see what you have in TD & Thomas - one should be able to produce in year 2. So long as you sign fair contracts term shouldnt be a killer if a better player becomes available. This management and coaching staff has proved themselves to the point we shouldnt have to wait around for a singular FA decision in a year. Keep getting better and go from there.
                            Management has shown ability to keep making this team better, in various ways, since Masai took over. It wasn't one good move or lucky break. Almost everything but the Carroll signing has moved this team in the right direction year after year.

                            If it isn't a big 2021 FA, it'll be something else. Kawhi-type deals come more or less out of the blue and Masai always has a roster that makes him a player in those situations. And this team still has young core players and lots of room to improve over a 2nd overall season that was a couple possessions from the conference finals. Think about that.
                            "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

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                            • planetmars wrote: View Post

                              The presumption is that they will lose Dipo for nothing if they hold on to him and he bails in free agency (which seems likely) in 2021. So they may want to trade him now before he walks away in a year. Fred isn't a bad replacement for them especially considering they will never be a free agent destination.

                              For the Raptors they get a guy that replaces Fred, possibly better than him, could be worse (depending on his recovery over the off season). The Raptors want space in 2021 not 2020, so can afford taking the big expiring contract even if he leaves in free agency.

                              The problem is a trade is not so simple since Fred's incoming value would be half his new contract. So if he took a $20M deal, he'd only be worth $10M in a trade, yet Dipo is worth $21M. So an additional $6M by the Raps would have to be tacked on that the Pacers could just absorb. McCaw and Stanley only make about $4M. Might need a 3rd team or send them Powell too which would be too big of a loss I think for the Raptors. If Fred takes $25M (which I doubt Indiana would pay).. then his incoming value would be $12.5M and adding a McCaw would add up to $16.5M and that can be used to trade for Dipo.

                              Miami needed 4 teams to do the Butler S&T last season. So it's not entirely impossible.. but there could be something there.

                              But it all hinges on whether Fred wants to play in Indiana or not. And my point again is that I'd only be happy bringing in Dipo if we traded him for Fred. Which would require a lot of things to connect and so is probably unlikely.
                              I'm not so sure Dipo would leave Indiana in free agency. Indiana can pay him more than anyone else (I presume) and for a guy with injury history that could be a key factor in staying.

                              Comment


                              • sign Jerami Grant. Not overreaction or anything
                                Only one thing matters: We The Champs.

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