Everything Off Season

[G__Deane]

I agree. Oladipo is not that guy though. Raptors need a star SG or SF that can create his own shot. The 2 that comes to mind is Beal adn LaVine. None of those guys are available though.

But if Masai isn't able to work some legit magic or Giannis just decides to stay put$, I can see the Raptors sliding back to competitive and irrelevant with a bunch of early round exits again. Too many fans are still drunk on one chip and seem content with that.

[chris]

But if Masai isn't able to work some legit magic or Giannis just decides to stay put$, I can see the Raptors sliding back to competitive and irrelevant with a bunch of early round exits again. Too many fans are still drunk on one chip and seem content with that.

no one's drunk off one chip. the surest way to years of mediocrity/complete irrelevance/true treadmill status is to sign someone of oladipo's stature to a max or near max deal. that contract will not age well, won't put us over the top, and won't easily be moved.

re-signing fred in the low 20's and/or norm in the mid teens will keep us relevant until the next opportunity, and are much easier to move off of. both of them were far better than oladipo was last season, and come way cheaper.

this is some grass is always greener shit. people want a quick fix. our floor with the players we currently have is 50-55 wins and a 3 to 6 seed simply by virtue of having nurse and the fact we play uncommonly hard in the regular season. that kind of organizational stability is attractive to free agents and we'd retain future flexibility.

acquiring oladipo doesn't move the needle on that ceiling in my opinion and gives us very little wiggle room through the life of his and siakam's deals. assuming we re-sign him next summer. if we don't then great, but we'd lose FVV and norm for nothing.

[golden]

I agree. Oladipo is not that guy though. Raptors need a star SG or SF that can create his own shot. The 2 that comes to mind is Beal adn LaVine. None of those guys are available though.

FVV S&T for Lavine makes a lot of sense. He’s almost the anti-FVV in some ways. Elite athlete, non-elite BBIQ. I’d roll the dice and hope Nurse can fix his bad habits.

[Yuri Gagarin]

He's a backup at best.

Best PG's in Raptors history:

Lowry


Stoudamire

FVV







Calderon
Alvin

lol you were shitting all over lowry constantly saying how bad he was not long ago now hes best ever by a mile 😝

[DanH]

FVV S&T for Lavine makes a lot of sense. He’s almost the anti-FVV in some ways. Elite athlete, non-elite BBIQ. I’d roll the dice and hope Nurse can fix his bad habits.

Would be shocking if CHI was willing to move LaVine. Not entirely sure I’d be interested anyway. Porter is a more likely return from them in terms of big salary in a Fred SnT.

And everyone, try to remember, any Fred sign and trade pretty much has to be a big trade with multiple pieces coming back or a three team trade (which makes the sign and trade that much more difficult and costly to pull off).

[DogeLover1234]

I think the narrative around Oladipo is a bit off. His problem is not that he was a one hit wonder but that he had a huge injury. Went back and looked at his numbers, the dude has always been very good in many areas, the notable differences is he went from an average finisher around the rim to an exceptional finisher. I would chalk that up not to a fluke year but rather the first year the court opened up for him to play his game. Indy is consistently a top 3 pt shooting team while OKC and Orlando are ... not. The extra spacing, plus a really nice off the dribble jumper openned up the middle more. Oladipo had game changing athleticism to challenge anyone at the rim. His block numbers were always some of the best for guards too. He was not crafty like Doncic or Harden, but he had the athleticism to make up for that and be a 3 level scorer and a true game changers at his position on both ends.

Since his injuries the difference is night and day. Hes still a very quick player, moves his feet and hips well, but his explosiveness is gone. He gets very little elevation on his jumpers, and plays below the rim. Without incredible explosiveness hes just not a special player. If you want to trade a lot for him you have to be sure he can build back his explosiveness. Hope he can cause he looked legit special in an offense built to his strengths.

[G__Deane]

no one's drunk off one chip.

I don't believe that. Too many fans are happy to have finally won something and are clearly fine with just making the playoffs and hoping again. They may not be actively thinking it or believing it themselves, but their words and actions speak loudly here.

But the reality is that running basically the same team back again next year will very likely result in the same 1st or second round exit. Bucks will be strong again and the Celtics will be a better team with all that young talent one year older and this playoff experience behind them. Miami will move up in the standings. Nets are a dark horse. Lakers, Clippers, Nuggets will all be strong again next year.

I don't want to fall back to just middling competitive, if that; I don't think that brings Giannis here and I think the road to another chip runs through him or similar.

[DogeLover1234]

I guess I dont get why running it *mostly* back will result ina first or second round loss. We lost a close second round series with a couple key guys playing bad. I dont get the assumption that all these other teams will get better or stay strong and we wont. Many guys are now year 2 in much bigger roles, seems fair to expect progression. We have young talent knocking on the door. We have potential trade chips and cap space. I trust that the coaching staff and management will make the right moves for an incremental step forward. Keep taking steps forward and one day you end up with a contender - thats how we got there last time.

[The Great One]

lol you were shitting all over lowry constantly saying how bad he was not long ago now hes best ever by a mile 😝

[The Great One]

FVV S&T for Lavine makes a lot of sense. He’s almost the anti-FVV in some ways. Elite athlete, non-elite BBIQ. I’d roll the dice and hope Nurse can fix his bad habits.

They have Coby White. They don't need a PG.

[Maury]

Who are you? Joey?

[S.R.]

I don't believe that. Too many fans are happy to have finally won something and are clearly fine with just making the playoffs and hoping again.

This is the definition of a strawman argument, at least in this forum.

[chris]

I think the narrative around Oladipo is a bit off. His problem is not that he was a one hit wonder but that he had a huge injury. Went back and looked at his numbers, the dude has always been very good in many areas, the notable differences is he went from an average finisher around the rim to an exceptional finisher. I would chalk that up not to a fluke year but rather the first year the court opened up for him to play his game. Indy is consistently a top 3 pt shooting team while OKC and Orlando are ... not. The extra spacing, plus a really nice off the dribble jumper openned up the middle more. Oladipo had game changing athleticism to challenge anyone at the rim. His block numbers were always some of the best for guards too. He was not crafty like Doncic or Harden, but he had the athleticism to make up for that and be a 3 level scorer and a true game changers at his position on both ends.

Since his injuries the difference is night and day. Hes still a very quick player, moves his feet and hips well, but his explosiveness is gone. He gets very little elevation on his jumpers, and plays below the rim. Without incredible explosiveness hes just not a special player. If you want to trade a lot for him you have to be sure he can build back his explosiveness. Hope he can cause he looked legit special in an offense built to his strengths.

i don't think his numbers in the non-2017/2018 season are anywhere close to commensurate with what he'll end up getting paid. and even if he gets back to 2017/2018 form, i don't think he's worth a max. it's not a rookie extension max; it'll be his thrid contract.

indiana reportedly offered him a 4 year extension worth 80 million, which tells you what they think about his chances of getting that explosiveness back. they offered him less than they gave brogdon.

[A.I]

I don't believe that. Too many fans are happy to have finally won something and are clearly fine with just making the playoffs and hoping again. They may not be actively thinking it or believing it themselves, but their words and actions speak loudly here.

But the reality is that running basically the same team back again next year will very likely result in the same 1st or second round exit. Bucks will be strong again and the Celtics will be a better team with all that young talent one year older and this playoff experience behind them. Miami will move up in the standings. Nets are a dark horse. Lakers, Clippers, Nuggets will all be strong again next year.

I don't want to fall back to just middling competitive, if that; I don't think that brings Giannis here and I think the road to another chip runs through him or similar.

Next season will likely be a run it back season just because there doesn't seem to be any high level star player on the trade block or in the free agent market. Re-tooling takes a few seasons sometimes. Being desperate and rushing into being a contender will just make you end up with overpaid/washed players like the Nets were with KG, Pierce, Williams, Lopez and Joe Johnson.

2021 free agency is the big one and I think this team will look different by the beginning of the 21-22 season with or without Giannis.

[chris]

I guess I dont get why running it *mostly* back will result ina first or second round loss. We lost a close second round series with a couple key guys playing bad. I dont get the assumption that all these other teams will get better or stay strong and we wont. Many guys are now year 2 in much bigger roles, seems fair to expect progression. We have young talent knocking on the door. We have potential trade chips and cap space. I trust that the coaching staff and management will make the right moves for an incremental step forward. Keep taking steps forward and one day you end up with a contender - thats how we got there last time.

no dude second place in the league and minutes away from a return to the conference finals is the new treadmill. we need to shed assets to blow our wad to the tune of 38M per next summer for a mediocre player to prove to deaner that we're not getting complacent.

that's smart management.