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  • slaw wrote: View Post

    Take the money and run. Insane that NBA guys leave money on the table. If someone throws max money at Fred and the Raps don’t match he should go. Maybe that’s my old baseball fan talking but I don’t get it unless you are making more in endorsements by going somewhere. Like $10MM/year is a whack of money even after tax. Over 4 years it is enough to materially improve the lifestyle of even a multimillionaire.

    Having said call that, I don’t see any team offering FVV that much.
    I'd like to see how a few guys feel signing for an extra X millions per year but losing 60% of the time and missing the playoffs instead of winning and getting a shot. These guys have been winners their entire lives and playing for the Wizards or Hornets or Hawks must suck. But I guess most of the better players have the choice to sign where the team is at least decent.

    I know I'd sooner make $20M a year in Toronto than 23 in Detroit ....

    Comment


    • DanH wrote: View Post
      I agree that it was a poor choice to play Gasol at the top of the arc so much when he is much more effective playmaking from the high post.

      I love that you dug up all those playoff stats to make your argument and left in the Nets series, which was barely a series and against a team that literally had no NBA quality bench players. Of course our bench demolished them. Try looking again, specifically at the on-court success (net rating) and you'll see there wasn't quite the difference you imagine between the players you are getting so worked up about (and in fact the story is quite bad for Powell). The Celtics killed us no matter which C was on the court (-7.4 vs -9.0 net ratings), in spite of one getting to play most of his minutes NOT against their best lineup.
      yeah he was best after the pick and short roll

      Comment


      • slaw wrote: View Post

        Take the money and run. Insane that NBA guys leave money on the table. If someone throws max money at Fred and the Raps don’t match he should go. Maybe that’s my old baseball fan talking but I don’t get it unless you are making more in endorsements by going somewhere. Like $10MM/year is a whack of money even after tax. Over 4 years it is enough to materially improve the lifestyle of even a multimillionaire.

        Having said call that, I don’t see any team offering FVV that much.
        The knicks are always going to knick LOL.....


        but yeah... my minor worry is this.. If someone offers Fred a full max (like the knicks)..... then I think he is gone...

        I don't think he gets the max though but there is a chance. I also think if Fred gets the max things get very interesting for us. We obviously then draft a PG. I think if its between 3-5 million difference I see free staying.. 10 million is a big gap.

        Comment


        • slaw wrote: View Post

          Take the money and run. Insane that NBA guys leave money on the table. If someone throws max money at Fred and the Raps don’t match he should go. Maybe that’s my old baseball fan talking but I don’t get it unless you are making more in endorsements by going somewhere. Like $10MM/year is a whack of money even after tax. Over 4 years it is enough to materially improve the lifestyle of even a multimillionaire.

          Having said call that, I don’t see any team offering FVV that much.
          I think there are teams that will overpay for Fred. He has some flaws, but he is a good player and if a team does want to over pay, Raptors should let him go.

          Comment


          • saints91 wrote: View Post
            Do we have the room to get Ingram? I think we have to drop the capholds on Serg, Gasol, Fred to even sign him. And then try to fill out the team with 1 year contracts to keep space available for the FA class.
            Yeah... we could.. in aggregate Marc and Serge make close to 50M... Ingrams max is around 30.
            Keep Freds cap hold and match under bird rights post Ingram? Not sure about that but the Raps have Bobby Webster who was hired for these types of things.

            I am in the camp that in todays NBA a C isn't as high a priority as a get your own shot wing ..
            An MLE will get us a C.

            Its sad but the championship version of the Raptors is going to change. It has to. That we won it with this very likeable group and a hired gun in Kawhai was the best. It can't be taken back. But now its time to view the new landscape and adapt to it.

            Tatum and Brown are here for a while.
            Durant and Irving will pose a challenge for a couple years.
            The Alphabet will likely stay in the East in Milwaukee.. he is built like that.
            The Heat are more media hype than a long term challenger.
            Christ.. even Philly might get lucky and find the right roster mix this year or next.

            Time to chart the next course back to the finals.
            Last edited by Demographic Shift; Tue Sep 15th, 2020, 12:20 PM.

            Comment


            • Demographic Shift wrote: View Post

              Yeah... we could.. in aggregate Marc and Serge make close to 50M... Ingrams max is around 30.
              I am in the camp that in todays NBA a C isn't as high a priority as a get your own shot wing..
              An MLE will get us a C.
              Siakam is now making about $29M (used to be $2.3M) and Fred's cap hold is about $17.7M (used to be $9.3M). So with these contracts in place we can't afford another $30M contract this off season even if Marc and Serge are off the books.

              Our cap situation gets better next season when Kyle's and potentially Norm's contracts are off the books as well.

              Comment


              • G__Deane wrote: View Post

                Maybe historically but I think the shine is off that apple (see what I did there?) for the most part due to the shape the franchise is in and Dolan.

                And Fred strikes me as a guy that does what's best for his family as strictly his bank account. Not that any of these guys can make a truly bad decision for their net worth lol
                Freds an American too. I'm sure his family can have an extremely beautiful life as a multi(multi multi) millionaire in New York City. I know we love Toronto guys but let's be real here
                It's Klaw Season. Time to hunt.

                Comment


                • A.I wrote: View Post

                  I think there are teams that will overpay for Fred. He has some flaws, but he is a good player and if a team does want to over pay, Raptors should let him go.
                  Depends how much the overpay is, losing assets for nothing when you're over the cap is always a problem. You need tradeable assets to make changes or else you're the Bucks. Raptors should try to keep him unless the contract absolutely screws their cap sheet.
                  "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

                  Comment


                  • It really comes down to whether or not Masai is willing to match any offer for Fred. If Fred is shown the love he will stay. If not he will probably leave. I think it's really that simple. The Biyombo situation all over again.

                    Comment


                    • golden wrote: View Post

                      Fred hurt his market value in the Celtics series for sure, but one interesting scenario would be the Bulls. They just hired a new front office and they want to change the culture. If Otto Porter opts in, then they have no cap space. Let's say that Fred wants to "go back home" (Rockford is close to Chicago) and Fred and the Bulls have mutual interest, then one scenario could be a sign & trade FVV for Zach Lavine. Perhaps even toss in Norm for Satoransky, to sweeten the deal.

                      Lavine has a ton of flaws, and is a low IQ player, but the one thing he can do is create his own shot and inject some size and athleticism into our back-court. Nurse would be pulling his hair out coaching him, but if he could unlock the full potential of Lavine, you could have a young star that would be built for the playoffs, under a reasonable contract ($19M) for term.
                      I don't think the Bulls know what the Bulls are doing, though, and the new management team is in a tough spot with no coach and a tough to gauge roster.in the sense of do they blow it up or was the organization/coaching so dysfunctional that Markannen and Lavine really just need help.

                      As for Lavine, I think he would be a completely different guy in Toronto, for example. I followed the Bulls a little this season and he always played hard and tried but they had so many injuries, terrible coaching and no good players that it often looked bad. The defense looked bad but a big part of that were the insane schemes Boylen was using that left his players out of position all the time. Not sure Chicago doesn't try to see what him and Coby White can do as a backcourt together (White was very good when Boylen finally used him) and give Markannen another year.

                      Comment


                      • planetmars wrote: View Post

                        Siakam is now making about $29M (used to be $2.3M) and Fred's cap hold is about $17.7M (used to be $9.3M). So with these contracts in place we can't afford another $30M contract this off season even if Marc and Serge are off the books.

                        Our cap situation gets better next season when Kyle's and potentially Norm's contracts are off the books as well.
                        We can nit pick.. but gorrilla math says
                        Lowry 30
                        Pascal 30
                        Powell 10
                        OG 4
                        McCaw 4 (or buy him out/stretch for nickles)
                        Stanley 4 ( this one hurts eh.. Player option... )
                        Davis.. Thomas and Hernandez total to 5
                        Feddy cap hold 15ish?


                        Thats about 100... caps at ? 115 ? delta is 15... you can trade norm for a pick which gives you 10.....
                        Again... Bobby Webster can kick the barrell for 5 in some way shape or form.

                        If he is out there.. and he is... and if they want him... they can make the offer... no surety that griffin and NO don't match.. but there is the possiblitly that the covid season makes one gail benson hold on to her money a little more tightly.... NO has zion and ball and holiday.... and a bazillion picks...
                        Its possible.. how likely ?

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                        • G__Deane wrote: View Post

                          I'd like to see how a few guys feel signing for an extra X millions per year but losing 60% of the time and missing the playoffs instead of winning and getting a shot. These guys have been winners their entire lives and playing for the Wizards or Hornets or Hawks must suck. But I guess most of the better players have the choice to sign where the team is at least decent.

                          I know I'd sooner make $20M a year in Toronto than 23 in Detroit ....
                          How much does winning mean to him?

                          If he leaves TO to sign with the Pistons or Knicks then that means he'll spend his prime years not making the playoffs.

                          If I was in his shoes no way I would go to Detroit. Are you kidding me? NY is intriguing but I don't see them getting better anytime soon. I'm seeing a lot of Devin Booker rumours but Booker is under contract for 4 more years. He's not going anywhere anytime soon.
                          Mamba Mentality

                          Comment


                          • slaw wrote: View Post

                            I don't think the Bulls know what the Bulls are doing, though, and the new management team is in a tough spot with no coach and a tough to gauge roster.in the sense of do they blow it up or was the organization/coaching so dysfunctional that Markannen and Lavine really just need help.

                            As for Lavine, I think he would be a completely different guy in Toronto, for example. I followed the Bulls a little this season and he always played hard and tried but they had so many injuries, terrible coaching and no good players that it often looked bad. The defense looked bad but a big part of that were the insane schemes Boylen was using that left his players out of position all the time. Not sure Chicago doesn't try to see what him and Coby White can do as a backcourt together (White was very good when Boylen finally used him) and give Markannen another year.
                            That's exactly what I'm saying.... start Lavine beside Lowry, OG & Siakam and that's already a boost for him. Add in Nurse and the Raptors culture and you've got a chance to unlock more upside. In return, the Bulls badly need to change the culture, so we can sell high on some of our 'championship culture' which, TBH, got exposed in the playoffs as being mostly Kawhi.

                            Comment


                            • Fred going to Detroit would allow him to take his final form: DeMar 2.0. Casey would adopt him as his own child and tell him to shoot the fuck out of the ball every holiday dinner at the Casey house. Everyone would be happy.

                              Knicks would probably intrigue him, NBA players always have ego to believe they're the guy who can turn it around. He would help there because they need perimeter scoring, but management would absolutely continue to screw everything up. That franchise will never get anywhere until Dolan sells. He could have had Kyle Lowry lmao.
                              "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

                              Comment


                              • Demographic Shift wrote: View Post

                                We can nit pick.. but gorrilla math says
                                Lowry 30
                                Pascal 30
                                Powell 10
                                OG 4
                                McCaw 4 (or buy him out/stretch for nickles)
                                Stanley 4 ( this one hurts eh.. Player option... )
                                Davis.. Thomas and Hernandez total to 5
                                Feddy cap hold 15ish?


                                Thats about 100... caps at ? 115 ? delta is 15... you can trade norm for a pick which gives you 10.....
                                Again... Bobby Webster can kick the barrell for 5 in some way shape or form.

                                If he is out there.. and he is... and if they want him... they can make the offer... no surety that griffin and NO don't match.. but there is the possiblitly that the covid season makes one gail benson hold on to her money a little more tightly.... NO has zion and ball and holiday.... and a bazillion picks...
                                Its possible.. how likely ?
                                I like using shamsports.com/capulator since I don't have to do the leg work. Shows about $121M with all free agents let go except Fred's cap hold. So even if we find someone for Norm, and waive either Stanley or McCaw.. we're still pretty thin.

                                Need the salaries and cap holds to be about $85M to get a $30M player, assuming the cap is at $115M.

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