Everything Off Season

[G__Deane]

I don't know what move moves a needle for Raps.

Honestly, I don't think we're competing this year.
Re-signing FVV or Serge isn't going to cut it .... Masai needs to get jiggy with it.

[LJ2]

Yeah Houston is definitely having a firesale. They got two picks for Covington. The second is protected. I like Covington. I would have swapped Norm for him to give us some depth at the PF/Wing spot. Plus Covington played small ball 5 for Houston last season.

Hard to say, so far they've traded Covington and received Ariza back along with picks. Still have their main assets in Westbrook and Harden.

Houston is asking for either KD or Kyrie in a trade of Harden to the Nets, so they aren't caving in...yet.

[planetmars]

Hard to say, so far they've traded Covington and received Ariza back along with picks. Still have their main assets in Westbrook and Harden.

Houston is asking for either KD or Kyrie in a trade of Harden to the Nets, so they aren't caving in...yet.

It seems like everyone in Houston is unhappy. With D'Antoni and Morey leaving it has left a mark. Rivers doesn't want to come back. Tucker is upset he didn't get an extension. Westbrook wants out. Harden wants to go to Brooklyn.

Their big move last deadline was swapping Capela for Covington. They already gave up on that? Teams looking for picks are taking a step back. Ariza is a shell of who he was. They'll be lucky if he plays 40 games for them. I mean he wasn't even in the bubble for Portland.

We'll see.. but the new Houston front office have a lot of work to do. And from what I've learned watching this game for so long.. the players have more power. They get what they want. I will be surprised if Harden and Westbrook are with Houston by the time we start the season.

[LJ2]

It seems like everyone in Houston is unhappy. With D'Antoni and Morey leaving it has left a mark. Rivers doesn't want to come back. Tucker is upset he didn't get an extension. Westbrook wants out. Harden wants to go to Brooklyn.

Their big move last deadline was swapping Capela for Covington. They already gave up on that? Teams looking for picks are taking a step back. Ariza is a shell of who he was. They'll be lucky if he plays 40 games for them. I mean he wasn't even in the bubble for Portland.

We'll see.. but the new Houston front office have a lot of work to do. And from what I've learned watching this game for so long.. the players have more power. They get what they want. I will be surprised if Harden and Westbrook are with Houston by the time we start the season.

Very likely scenario.

Having said that if they trade Harden then Westbrook gets the team to himself which is what he wants. Perhaps they can trade Harden to Philly for Embiid, and go in a different direction with Westbrook and Joel?

Despite the flurry Milwaukee transactions today, the trade talks have been quieter than I would have thought. Perhaps teams are waiting for tomorrows draft before making moves.

[DanH]

Honestly, I don't think we're competing this year.
Re-signing FVV or Serge isn't going to cut it .... Masai needs to get jiggy with it.

Re-sign FVV and Gasol and there's no reason we should be significantly less competitive than last year. If anything internal improvement should help us. Not bad for a holding pattern year, which was always the plan I think.

[golden]

It seems like everyone in Houston is unhappy. With D'Antoni and Morey leaving it has left a mark. Rivers doesn't want to come back. Tucker is upset he didn't get an extension. Westbrook wants out. Harden wants to go to Brooklyn.

Their big move last deadline was swapping Capela for Covington. They already gave up on that? Teams looking for picks are taking a step back. Ariza is a shell of who he was. They'll be lucky if he plays 40 games for them. I mean he wasn't even in the bubble for Portland.

We'll see.. but the new Houston front office have a lot of work to do. And from what I've learned watching this game for so long.. the players have more power. They get what they want. I will be surprised if Harden and Westbrook are with Houston by the time we start the season.

Daryl Morey sure left a big steaming pile of clusterf*ck behind, to say the least. And yet he landed in a great spot with a fat contract. That's teflon genius, right there.

[golden]

Re-sign FVV and Gasol and there's no reason we should be significantly less competitive than last year. If anything internal improvement should help us. Not bad for a holding pattern year, which was always the plan I think.

Sure, but are other teams improving faster than we are? Brooklyn, for one, is an obvious choice and they're in our own division so we play them more. Sixers and Celtics are probably going to make some moves. Atlantic Division, on its own, is probably the toughest division in the NBA.

[inthepaint]

I've been saying this for some time: The 2021 FA group is not as stacked as people think. I always hear words "FA bonanza", "motherload" etc. Truth is there's nothing stacked about that class. The best free agents that could realistically leave their teams on that offseason are Gobert and Oladipo (who is disgruntled and looking more and more likely to be moved right now).

Giannis was always a distant maybe, and now with these moves it's even more likely he'll extend with the bucks unfortunately. We can always debate if the moves will actually take them further or not, but regardless, it's a big signal from the team to him that they're changing things up and sacrificing some of their future assets to help him win now. You don't send 3 FRPs, 2 swaps, a starting PG plus a knockdown shooter for Jrue Holiday, if it's just Jrue Holiday in a vacuum you want.

Not saying we should do moves just for the sake of doing moves, but teams pipe-dreaming about Giannis or some other mythical free agents in 2021 gotta start taking these things into account. Raptors are among those teams, and on top of that, we also gotta realize that the older and further removed from the championship our guys are, the less valuable they'll be in trades.

[planetmars]

Sure, but are other teams improving faster than we are? Brooklyn, for one, is an obvious choice and they're in our own division so we play them more. Sixers and Celtics are probably going to make some moves. Atlantic Division, on its own, is probably the toughest division in the NBA.

I think the Pacific is tougher: Lakers, Clippers, Warriors, Suns and Kings.
Atlantic: Raptors, Nets, 76ers, Celtics, Knicks.


I would rank them:

1. Lakers
2. Clippers
3. Nets
4. Warriors
5. Celtics
6. Raptors
7. Suns
8. 76ers
9. Kings
10. Knicks

Of course this depends on what each does. If the Nets get Harden move them up to 1. If 76ers get Harden move them up to 3 or 4.

[G__Deane]

Re-sign FVV and Gasol and there's no reason we should be significantly less competitive than last year. If anything internal improvement should help us. Not bad for a holding pattern year, which was always the plan I think.

Well I just don't agree. I think we'd take a step back if for no other reason than others are taking steps forward, even marginal ones. The East is more competitive than it was 2 years ago. Boston will be better, the Bucks will have at least a great regular season, Miami is better than they were, Brooklyn will be better baring injuries.

Raps aren't better. Where's the significant internal improvement coming from and why would it be better than for many other younger teams. There's a lot of wishing and hoping going on here and not a lot of movement to back it up.

When the Bucks or Miami or Celtics have disappointing seasons, they make major changes and run it back out.
They take steps, they improve.
We just had a bit of a disappointing season. Zero sense in just running it back .... out ....
Sure, in him we trust but Masai needs to get some giddy in his up.

[nba_4_life]

People need to step back on this "other teams are getting better than us, so we should just give up" mindset. Did you all forget what happened last season when the clippers,philly,houston all did big moves and were deemed 'better' than us, yet we had a better record and made it just as far as those teams.

[Joey]

The same thing happened last year, and we finished 2nd in the East. Other teams maybe keep getting better from the outside.. Our boys are definitely getting better from the inside.

[DanH]

Well I just don't agree. I think we'd take a step back if for no other reason than others are taking steps forward, even marginal ones. The East is more competitive than it was 2 years ago. Boston will be better, the Bucks will have at least a great regular season, Miami is better than they were, Brooklyn will be better baring injuries.

Raps aren't better. Where's the significant internal improvement coming from and why would it be better than for many other younger teams. There's a lot of wishing and hoping going on here and not a lot of movement to back it up.

When the Bucks or Miami or Celtics have disappointing seasons, they make major changes and run it back out.
They take steps, they improve.
We just had a bit of a disappointing season. Zero sense in just running it back .... out ....
Sure, in him we trust but Masai needs to get some giddy in his up.

Let's assume the Bucks and Nets land 1 and 2. Bucks and Nets, sure (well, maybe, but let's say sure). Miami is better than they were... how exactly? Seems to me they are in the same situation as we are, with a couple young guys improving and some of their win drivers getting up there in age. Except they are starting from a 50 win pace team and not a 60 win pace team. Boston will improve with their young guys, and maybe they overtake us, making up 5 wins from that improvement.

To slip out of home court, the Raptors would have to have another team besides the Nets make up EIGHT wins on them (along with the Celtics making up 5). Yeah, maybe that happens. I don't think it's fair to look around at the East and say all our competitors have made up that much ground based on the offseason so far.

You don't expect Siakam to do better in his 2nd year in that role than in the 1st?

I'm not saying other teams might not make bigger improvements. I'm saying they have some real ground to make up, and the one area we really need improvement in (star player scoring in playoffs) is the one area we should feel pretty good about improving in.

Now, if FVV walks, or we let Marc go, yeah we'll take a step back. Which is also acceptable, because we'll likely still be in the conversation for home court. But I find it hard to imagine running the whole team back (give or take) and being significantly worse off, even compared to any improvement from our competitors.

[inthepaint]

Re-sign FVV and Gasol and there's no reason we should be significantly less competitive than last year. If anything internal improvement should help us. Not bad for a holding pattern year, which was always the plan I think.

Oh yes, of course. Gasol. Re-signing him should be our priority. Guy is a walking bucket. Can always fearlessly hit from the post, midrange and from 3 with no hesitation, plus clean the glass for us. Can't believe we're not hearing much about him and more teams are not all over him. That side-to-side swinging in the perimeter looking for cutters is magic. Opposing defences never know which side of the court he's gonna pass the ball to.

[DanH]

Oh yes, of course. Gasol. Re-signing him should be our priority. Guy is a walking bucket. Can always fearlessly hit from the post, midrange and from 3 with no hesitation, plus clean the glass for us. Can't believe we're not hearing much about him and more teams are not all over him. That side-to-side swinging in the perimeter looking for cutters is magic. Opposing defences never know which side of the court he's gonna pass the ball to.

You can be sarcastic all you like but if we can't bring some semblance of what he provided last year, scoff as much as you like, the team will take a step back. If we re-sign Ibaka instead, for example, would be one such scenario.