Everything Off Season

[inthepaint]

Theis like Fred, Terrence and Matt was an undrafted signing for them. Sometimes you can get really good players that way. Theis did play behind Horford though last year before he got pushed to the starting unit.

Boucher could have a little something in him to be able to start big games.. but he'll need Nurse's trust. Not sure if he has that.

There's an ingrained pecking order/hierarchy in certain NBA teams that just doesn't make sense to me sometimes. I like when teams are bold in the playoffs and go with the confident, hot hand on the particular series they're in (rather them being held hostage to old playoffs/regular season stats). Guys like Lu Dort, Duncan Robinson and Kendrick Nunn are all undrafted and were flat out balling this year whole year, because their coach gave them a chance. Same when FVV broke out.

Nurse is a good coach but has trust issues and plays favourites. I'll tell ya, if he had given half of Gasol's plodding minutes with our lumbering offence out there to TD, Thomas, or maybe even Boucher, we'd be on the ECF right now. It was only a 5pt game 7. If any of these guys knew they'd get a consistent 10-15 minutes per game, they'd come out balling, aggressive to the basket and hunting their shots so they could make a name for themselves. They'd be moving all over the place off ball and would even enhance/space the game for Lowry & Siakam.

Instead they never know when, with whom, or how long they're gonna play, which is a terrible way to give players confidence and rhythm. They can't rip a fart the wrong way and if they're not perfect within the first 2 minutes they get the hook - and you're back to the slow guy shooting 30% from the field that doesn't look at the basket anymore, but that you "trust" and give an infinitely long leash to (because of stuff they did in practice, or a year ago against different opponents, with different teammates, under totally different circumstances).

[DanH]

Boucher will have a market. I was surprised to hear a few of the commentators, like SVG, talking him up pretty big. You really think that $5m an overpay?

I don’t think it’s an overpay. I think it’s more than the Raptors can afford to give him into 2021 unless Fred comes in below 20M.

[golden]

There's an ingrained pecking order/hierarchy in certain NBA teams that just doesn't make sense to me sometimes. I like when teams are bold in the playoffs and go with the confident, hot hand on the particular series they're in (rather them being held hostage to old playoffs/regular season stats). Guys like Lu Dort, Duncan Robinson and Kendrick Nunn are all undrafted and were flat out balling this year whole year, because their coach gave them a chance. Same when FVV broke out.

Nurse is a good coach but has trust issues and plays favourites. I'll tell ya, if he had given half of Gasol's plodding minutes with our lumbering offence out there to TD, Thomas, or maybe even Boucher, we'd be on the ECF right now. It was only a 5pt game 7. If any of these guys knew they'd get a consistent 10-15 minutes per game, they'd come out balling, aggressive to the basket and hunting their shots so they could make a name for themselves. They'd be moving all over the place off ball and would even enhance/space the game for Lowry & Siakam.

Instead they never know when, with whom, or how long they're gonna play, which is a terrible way to give players confidence and rhythm. They can't rip a fart the wrong way and if they're not perfect within the first 2 minutes they get the hook - and you're back to the slow guy shooting 30% from the field that doesn't look at the basket anymore, but that you "trust" and give an infinitely long leash to (because of stuff they did in practice, or a year ago against different opponents, with different teammates, under totally different circumstances).

Hate to say it, but some of our guys got that infinitely long leash because of Kawhi and it was enough rope to hang us.

[TrueTorontoFan]

Boucher will have a market. I was surprised to hear a few of the commentators, like SVG, talking him up pretty big. You really think that $5m an overpay?

it definitely is when you want to keep as much capspace for next years free agency (GIANNIS)... the bucks likely will try to do everything they can to keep giannis.. i think giannis will not call for a trade out right and will give them a year to see what happens. they may try to cp3... but i doubt they swing it.. even if they do its not a guarantee of a chip.


5 million is not necessarily an overpay from the standpoint of his "value" he does a few things well... but he is still quite RAW in his development and there are enough flaws that I dont see him being worth more than the minimum either.. AGAIN especially since we are trying to maintain cap flexibility ... so we don't have a ton of cash to go around.

Next year should be seen as more of a developmental year... We likely will fall in the standings (don't see the roster YET so I can't determine by how much). I think with the way that I think things will go we will be around a 4-6 seed next year.

[TrueTorontoFan]

Hate to say it, but some of our guys got that infinitely long leash because of Kawhi and it was enough rope to hang us.

the gasol decision was harder because a lot of advanced metrics and numbers showed that gasol was much better at his defensive positioning than serge... serge has more tools but seems to lack the basketball IQ unfortunately on the defensive end by comparison.. Not to say he is terrible defensively because that's a bold face lie... but he is compared to one of our best defensive players.. The issue with gasol was he was SUPER limited offensively and it hurt as dearly.. to the point where the guy couldn't even make a shot and rarely took a shot.. literally if gasol shot 30% or even 25% on 3's we are talking about a largely different series.

[golden]

I don’t think it’s an overpay. I think it’s more than the Raptors can afford to give him into 2021 unless Fred comes in below 20M.

If Fred wants 23m, that’s a no-brainer... thanks and god bless. But Masai and Nurse love him so they’ll probably pay market. It would be a shame if overpaying FVV & Siakam make us lose value priced pieces with potential, like Boucher.

[G__Deane]

At some points, you have to be prepared to tell a player "you want to go play and move your family to Detriot or some other crap hole to make a few extra bucks rather than stay in a great city where you won a chip and you know Masai will keep in contention and still make X millions per year, well I you're not the type of player we need around here"

This is a great situation in a great city with great fans and great Coaching and great Management and great owners. You're going to make a fortune every year here and live wherever you want in the off season. You want to make a fortune+ and leave all that, there's the door....

Some players need to understand we made them here, not the other way around.

[saints91]

Fred’s the one that worked for it, we provided him an opportunity to play in a situation that showcased his abilities.

I doubt he takes a hometown discount, but if he does get offered something ridiculous, I hope we get something out of it, like the Butler trade. We have to preserve our space above the cap.

[inthepaint]

Hate to say it, but some of our guys got that infinitely long leash because of Kawhi and it was enough rope to hang us.

Precisely. That 2019 team was like First Love for Nurse. If he could have it his way he'll play what's leftover of that team until they're 45 yrs old, paying top dollar, giving all the rope in the world and indefinitely waiting for them to "turn it around and start making shots". One of his first comments on the season debrief was how happy about how much $ FVV is gonna get. Not sure to what extent it will actually materialize for Fred, but one thing is for sure, he certainly got all the green light and minutes in the world to showcase, jack up shots, call plays and take over the offence as he saw fit.

Hate to cry over the spilled milk, but I'm also still baffled by how much time we wasted on Gasol on these playoffs when it was precisely our offence that desperately needed a jolt of movement and guys hunting and hungry for shots. But alas, what's done is done. Now we just gotta brace for the return of Pat McCaw, his other crush. He'll be getting 25-30 mins a game for sure. TD & Thomas better get some good padded cushions, they'll be riding the pine hard again.

[Rudy Bargnani]

Precisely. That 2019 team was like First Love for Nurse. If he could have it his way he'll play what's leftover of that team until they're 45 yrs old, paying top dollar, giving all the rope in the world and indefinitely waiting for them to "turn it around and start making shots". One of his first comments on the season debrief was how happy about how much $ FVV is gonna get. Not sure to what extent it will actually materialize for Fred, but one thing is for sure, he certainly got all the green light and minutes in the world to showcase, jack up shots, call plays and take over the offence as he saw fit.

Hate to cry over the spilled milk, but I'm also still baffled by how much time we wasted on Gasol on these playoffs when it was precisely our offence that desperately needed a jolt of movement and guys hunting and hungry for shots. But alas, what's done is done. Now we just gotta brace for the return of Pat McCaw, his other crush. He'll be getting 25-30 mins a game for sure. TD & Thomas better get some good padded cushions, they'll be riding the pine hard again.

There is an interesting comparison to that on Clippers boards right now RE Doc Rivers. Montrez was -19 in 15 minutes today while Zubac was + 11. Harrell is like -60 in the playoffs and doc is still riding his horses that got him there.

[DanH]

If Fred wants 23m, that’s a no-brainer... thanks and god bless. But Masai and Nurse love him so they’ll probably pay market. It would be a shame if overpaying FVV & Siakam make us lose value priced pieces with potential, like Boucher.

Boucher turns 28 this winter. I’d love to keep him if dirt cheap, but there’s not a huge amount of upside to be betting on there.

[DanH]

There is an interesting comparison to that on Clippers boards right now RE Doc Rivers. Montrez was -19 in 15 minutes today while Zubac was + 11. Harrell is like -60 in the playoffs and doc is still riding his horses that got him there.

The difference, of course, being that the Raptors were -27 in Gasol’s 148 minutes in the Boston series.

And a dramatically better... -27 in Serge’s 158 minutes.

As brutal as that game 7 was from Gasol (though more invisible than actively bad), the story of the series was not which C played (and the wins basically all came down to the Raps crushing the Celtics in Gasol’s and specifically the starters’ minutes), it was the cold shooting and the complete lack of Pascal playing like himself leading to too much being put on Lowry.

[LJ2]

Theis like Fred, Terrence and Matt was an undrafted signing for them. Sometimes you can get really good players that way. Theis did play behind Horford though last year before he got pushed to the starting unit.

Boucher could have a little something in him to be able to start big games.. but he'll need Nurse's trust. Not sure if he has that.

Well the thing is, Theis pretty much just needed to be competent and their team did fine. The C position doesn't need to be manned by an All Star caliber player, he just needs to be a competent role player. Like so many have said before the star player(s) on your team are ideally wings. Between Gasol and Ibaka, how much $$ did we have tied up? Save the cap,space for the positions of greater importance, let both Gasol and Ibaka walk if the price is too high, man those spots with competent role players and invest the big money in a SG.

[A.I]

Fred’s the one that worked for it, we provided him an opportunity to play in a situation that showcased his abilities.

I doubt he takes a hometown discount, but if he does get offered something ridiculous, I hope we get something out of it, like the Butler trade. We have to preserve our space above the cap.

It would be nice if he agrees to a sign & trade, but not sure how often that happens. Either way, I wouldn't want to over pay for him, and I have a feeling some teams will throw money at him.

[golden]

Boucher turns 28 this winter. I’d love to keep him if dirt cheap, but there’s not a huge amount of upside to be betting on there.

We don’t need any more upside from Boucher. Just need him to maintain the stellar numbers he put up when he got to play extended minutes. I posted those splits earlier. The gamble would be to see if that’s real and sustainable. One thing that is real is that he plays hard, fearless and with a lot of heart. The other obvious concern is his body, - he’s not going to be an Embiid stopper.

We’re talking about 5M for a versatile backup PF/C. That doesn’t seem like much. Who would you recommend at that price?