Everything Off Season

[G__Deane]

Interesting difference in how you build a contender.

Team top 3 salaries. After that, player 4 really drops off for all teams:

Raptors
Kyle Lowry $33,300,000
Marc Gasol $25,600,000
Serge Ibaka $23,300,000
Total $82,000,000

Lakers
lebron James $37,400,000
Anthony Davis $27,000,000
Danny Green $14,600,000
Total $80,000,000

Clippers
Paul George $33,000,000
Kawhi Leonard $33,000,000
Marcus Morris $15,000,000
Total $78,000,000

Celtics
Kemba Walker $33,000,000
Gordan Hayward $33,000,000
Marcus Smart $13,000,000
Total $79,000,000
-this swill skew when Jaylen Tatum's deal goes up next season but Tatum remains a steal. Kemba Walker will become a bit more of a salary anchor like Kyle has been in Toronto.

Bucks are well under these other 4 @70M

The similarity in top 3 salaries is not surprising. But the drop off from player 2 to 3 means most others have more superstars in 1&2.
I love Kyle but he's being paid like a lebron or Kawhi.
Gasol's being paid like he's Anthony Davis.

We pay our top three more than the Lakers, Clippers, Celtics and Bucks? Who else might we have had if our top 3 were being paid "more reasonably"? Please don't bother to tell me why they are being paid market rate or why the Raps had to pay them X. This is just fantasy talk.

Where's the stir the pot icon?


*All numbers from basketball-directory.com
I'm sure there might be minor corrections to this but the point still stands.

[S.R.]

My issue with FVV moving forward is two-fold: short term, how do you add more playmaking/shotmaking with Fred, OG, Pascal and Lowry locked in as your best 4 players? Long term, is he willing to move into more of a PG role facilitating the offence, deferring to others and being a timely shooter/scorer?

Fred has developed past expectations (mine included) to this point, so good for him. My biggest concern with him is seeing shades of DeMar in his development - the same confidence and "prove 'em" mentality that got these guys as good as they got, also ran them into a wall at a point where their game needed to develop in a slightly different direction and they refused to do it. The answer, in their minds, was to continue to believe in themselves and put shots up. But they hit their ceilings and that really wasn't working for them.

Fred's not doomed to that outcome by any means. Maybe he learns and tweaks his game and gets better. Hopefully.

Adding a real 1A next offseason could push FVV (if he's here) off the ball a bit, which would be good. Likely the Raps try to keep FVV and we get another season + postseason to see things develop.

As for next year - play making and still not having a guy to break down a defence will be the same concerns next season as this one. The only real hope they'll have is for Siakam to take a step as an initiator and facilitator. Otherwise I think the transition year next year will look a lot like this year did, just with a bit less depth. Guys like TD and Thomas will have real opportunities to show something.

[planetmars]

Next season our top 3 will be: Siakam, Kyle, Fred. It's what happens when rookie guys get extensions. And why many teams like to tank since the value of a rookie deal is exponentially better than players without rookie contracts.

However guys on rookie contracts are usually not quite stars or winners either. Need a mixed bag of win now vets with rookies to help get you over the top. Raps had that last year. Celtics have that this year (with Kemba/Hayward as their vets with big money deals).

[S.R.]

Celtics baited Fred to score at the rim, and - like Charlie Brown, Lucy and the football - he fell for it over & over again. Either that, or it was just ego, or both. Even if Fred got by Kemba or any other defender, there was always another help defender who could meet the slow-footed FVV at the rim and contest the layup.

He was blocked 7 times on layup attempts that series and was shooting near 40% at the rim. His other problem was that his go to moves of a Euro step or slight hesitation opened him wide up for chase down/help side blocks. Celtics' long winger players had a field day, even Theis was quick enough to rotate onto those attempts.

[golden]

He was blocked 7 times on layup attempts that series and was shooting near 40% at the rim. His other problem was that his go to moves of a Euro step or slight hesitation opened him wide up for chase down/help side blocks. Celtics' long winger players had a field day, even Theis was quick enough to rotate onto those attempts.

Theis was impressive. Never had a chance to watch him this closely before, but he is more than just deceptively athletic. Quite mobile and quicker off his feet than Iblocka.

[planetmars]

Fred has developed past expectations (mine included) to this point, so good for him. My biggest concern with him is seeing shades of DeMar in his development - the same confidence and "prove 'em" mentality that got these guys as good as they got, also ran them into a wall at a point where their game needed to develop in a slightly different direction and they refused to do it. The answer, in their minds, was to continue to believe in themselves and put shots up. But they hit their ceilings and that really wasn't working for them.

Fred's not doomed to that outcome by any means. Maybe he learns and tweaks his game and gets better. Hopefully.

Adding a real 1A next offseason could push FVV (if he's here) off the ball a bit, which would be good. Likely the Raps try to keep FVV and we get another season + postseason to see things develop.

As for next year - play making and still not having a guy to break down a defence will be the same concerns next season as this one. The only real hope they'll have is for Siakam to take a step as an initiator and facilitator. Otherwise I think the transition year next year will look a lot like this year did, just with a bit less depth. Guys like TD and Thomas will have real opportunities to show something.

Waiting an entire season for that 1A player is costly.. could mean losing in the first round in the playoffs. I kind of am hoping we can move off from Fred sooner than later. Would also give more playing time to Terrence and Matt.

But Masai won't want to lose him for nothing. Wonder if we could entice Indiana on a Fred S&T for Turner and Holiday. Turner's contract is 3 years long though which can be problematic.

But he'd be a solid replacement for Serge and Marc. Not as great offensively. Is okay defensively. Can play the Theis role of just being in the dunker spot and playing good help defense when we we're scrambling on defense. Holiday is a really good defending PG that can play off the bench.

Indiana also doesn't need Turner since Sabonis is much better. And Fred gives them a guy to replace Dipo when he ultimately walks in free agency.

[S.R.]

Theis was impressive. Never had a chance to watch him this closely before, but he is more than just deceptively athletic. Quite mobile and quicker off his feet than Iblocka.

Ideal C for the current game, really. As cheap as possible, low usage, but mobile enough to cover the floor, strong enough for defending C's (generally), good rebounder, can help at the rim (not as much as a 7+ foot guy), and has just enough of a jump shot that you can't leave him alone. You get all that while paying as little as possible and you're doing well.

Boucher's almost there, better rim protector but he's so slight. He'll have trouble against stronger/bigger bigs.

[S.R.]

Waiting an entire season for that 1A player is costly.. could mean losing in the first round in the playoffs. I kind of am hoping we can move off from Fred sooner than later. Would also give more playing time to Terrence and Matt.

But Masai won't want to lose him for nothing. Wonder if we could entice Indiana on a Fred S&T for Turner and Holiday. Turner's contract is 3 years long though which can be problematic.

But he'd be a solid replacement for Serge and Marc. Not as great offensively. Is okay defensively. Can play the Theis role of just being in the dunker spot and playing good help defense when we we're scrambling on defense. Holiday is a really good defending PG that can play off the bench.

Indiana also doesn't need Turner since Sabonis is much better. And Fred gives them a guy to replace Dipo when he ultimately walks in free agency.

I really wouldn't mind re-signing Fred and exploring trade options right away either, whether S&T or a cold blooded trade during the year next season. He's absolutely good enough to demand interest if his contract is reasonable, several teams would like to have him.

[The Great One]

First things first, they need to re-sign Masai and Nurse to a long term extention. That should be priority #1.

As for the players, we need a superstar or even a star(like a Butler), preferably a WING that can create his own shot. That's how you win in today's game.

And I already talked about this, we're not going to win anything with Siakam as our "best" player or "2nd best" player because 1. he doesn't have the mentality of a great player. And 2. he's a PF. If you look at the greatest PF's in the history of the game - Dirk, Barkley, KG, Malone, McHale - Barkley and Malone never won a championship as the guy. McHale was Robin to Bird's Batman. KG needed to team up with two other 1st ballot hall of famers to win one. Dirk was the exception.

And please don't argue how the Raptors won the championship last year with Siakam as the 2nd best player. KYLE LOWRY was the Raptors 2nd best player last year.

[slaw]

He was blocked 7 times on layup attempts that series and was shooting near 40% at the rim. His other problem was that his go to moves of a Euro step or slight hesitation opened him wide up for chase down/help side blocks. Celtics' long winger players had a field day, even Theis was quick enough to rotate onto those attempts.

The blocks at the rim weren't the real problem from my perspective, though some were bad plays by him. What drove me crazy were the quick heat check threes, the turnovers when driving in the lane with no real idea what he was doing with the ball then picking up the dribble/jumping in the air, and pounding the ball for 15 seconds while nothing happened. Those plays were countless and all of those resulted in a needless pile of wasted possessions and were mostly the result of him not looking to pass the ball.

One seemingly lost art that would help him is keeping his dribble alive and pulling out of the lane if he needs to and then going back again, rather than just barreling in looking for contact or contorting his body to get a shot off.

[golden]

Ideal C for the current game, really. As cheap as possible, low usage, but mobile enough to cover the floor, strong enough for defending C's (generally), good rebounder, can help at the rim (not as much as a 7+ foot guy), and has just enough of a jump shot that you can't leave him alone. You get all that while paying as little as possible and you're doing well.

Boucher's almost there, better rim protector but he's so slight. He'll have trouble against stronger/bigger bigs.

Theis only makes $5M. Starting center on an ECF team. Sheesh. If we can re-sign Boucher at $5M/year and give him real, consistent minutes to show his value, that should be an easy contract to move if it gets in the way of signing Giannis in 2021.

[saints91]

Boucher is not the answer at C, he doesn’t have the size, he’s more of a PF with C skills. Boucher is a minimum salary guy IMO.

[saints91]

Who would you rather have Brogdon or FVV? I don’t think Fred should be paid Brogdon money.

Masai has the ability to find talent, championship teams need players that outperform their contracts. Fred won’t outperform 20M+.

[saints91]

Kyle is around for one more year, but we have to keep an eye on the future. I’m not worried about Siakam as much as others are. I think he can be a 2nd option.

OG can become a 3rd or 4th option, but that might be his ceiling. Shutdown defender that can have a reliable small contribution on offence.

[MixxAOR]

Get Embiid lmao