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  • S.R. wrote: View Post

    Tough. You got to hope your Siakam/Dipo/OG/Turner/Davis core has elite potential. Maybe, but it's a long-ish shot. They'd be very good.
    I don't know if you need elite potential to win since GSW has been dismantled. Miami got to the finals off the backs of a couple of rookies. Butler is great but Lowry is just as capable as producing as he is.

    Boston has a bunch of great talented players too.. but no obvious hall of fame locks at this point.. and we took them to 7 games. They could flip Hayward but that's their only big move. They have some draft picks coming up, but in a weak draft where many teams will try to sell their picks.

    Lakers/Clippers are a different story but are out west, and even those teams have flaws.

    I just hate shutting the door to the the Giannis dream as unlikely as that dream is. That's why I'm a no to Turner at this point, even though he's a good player. I'd rather give Serge a 1 year $25M contract or something. If the Giannis dream dies, we look to be really great in 2021 instead of elite. And still have a chance like we did this season.

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    • DanH wrote: View Post

      I presume, for money. And players tend to think they are pretty good, so he might not think Indy is stuck in the middle of the conference when he signs there. It's not like he'd be convincing himself he could lift a lotto team like NY into contention.
      FVV doesn't need to go to Indy to get paid and I have seen absolutely nothing pubclicly about him wanting to play there. Maybe he does but I doubt it.

      It's mostly the weird framing of this as being a sign and trade that benefits the teams involved. Fred is a free agent. It isn't about what's good for Toronto or Indiana or any other team.

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      • planetmars wrote: View Post
        Turner's contract runs until 2023. He's making about $18M a year. We bring in Myles and Victor, and if we resign Victor in 2021. our cap situation doesn't look so good for 2021.

        Siakam - $32M
        Turner - $18M
        Thomas - $1.8M
        Hernandez - $1.8M
        Dipo - $31.5M (cap hold)
        OG - $11.6M (cap hold)
        Davis - $2M (cap hold)
        2020 Draft pick - $2M
        2021 Draft pick - $2M
        Empty roster spots - $4M

        $104M in salary/cap holds. With a $109M cap, that's only $5M left. So no Giannis.

        We can get Kyle back and bring in some other guys back like Boucher, and we'll have the mid-level contract too (about $9M). But no Giannis.

        You could enter summer 2021 with the option to re-sign Dipo or sign Giannis. No way to get both no matter what we do unless Pascal is not on the roster.

        The benefit there is if you get Giannis, great. If you don't, and re-sign Dipo, you can also re-sign Lowry and any other FAs you have that summer.
        twitter.com/dhackett1565

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        • slaw wrote: View Post

          FVV doesn't need to go to Indy to get paid and I have seen absolutely nothing pubclicly about him wanting to play there. Maybe he does but I doubt it.

          It's mostly the weird framing of this as being a sign and trade that benefits the teams involved. Fred is a free agent. It isn't about what's good for Toronto or Indiana or any other team.
          Right, but if Fred wants to sign with a competitive team that has a chance to win, he will be limited in his choices and may not have any, really, in terms of getting a good contract.

          And if he wants to get paid, he might have to do so by going to a team that does not have a real chance to compete.

          The obvious ideal for Fred is to get both - which means only teams that are interested in sign and trades are his options, if both those things are important to him. Which is why looking at teams that have incentive to make a trade and could be logical landing spots (exactly what Fred's agent should be doing if he's halfway decent at his job) makes sense.
          twitter.com/dhackett1565

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          • DanH wrote: View Post

            You could enter summer 2021 with the option to re-sign Dipo or sign Giannis. No way to get both no matter what we do unless Pascal is not on the roster.

            The benefit there is if you get Giannis, great. If you don't, and re-sign Dipo, you can also re-sign Lowry and any other FAs you have that summer.
            Yeah.. except in the case for plan A (getting Giannis), we also lose Lowry. That's a no for me.

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            • planetmars wrote: View Post

              Yeah.. except in the case for plan A (getting Giannis), we also lose Lowry. That's a no for me.
              Yeah, but you are adding Giannis and have a good C... You make a pitch to Lowry to stay cheap for a year and pray. Plan A going after Giannis has always been that Lowry is no longer really in the equation unless in a smaller role.
              twitter.com/dhackett1565

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              • DanH wrote: View Post

                Yeah, but you are adding Giannis and have a good C... You make a pitch to Lowry to stay cheap for a year and pray. Plan A going after Giannis has always been that Lowry is no longer really in the equation unless in a smaller role.
                Staying "cheap" is playing for the vet minimum - $2.5M. That's a hard ask for a guy that's been the best player on this team.

                I prefer the plan of just dropping Fred. Use his new salary and give it to Lowry in 2021. Then find a way to lose Norm. Can still go with Giannis/Siakam/OG/Lowry with Matt, Terrence and our two draft picks.

                2020 is treading water. Bring back Serge and someone else for a 1 year deal. Just stay under tax and we're set.

                Can find someone on a vet minimum or someone from the G-league to play center 2021. Those guys are always kicking around. Or we could draft one this year or next. Or hope Dewan figures it out.

                I'd prefer Giannis to play C most of the time anyway in the playoffs.

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                • planetmars wrote: View Post

                  Staying "cheap" is playing for the vet minimum - $2.5M. That's a hard ask for a guy that's been the best player on this team.

                  I prefer the plan of just dropping Fred. Use his new salary and give it to Lowry in 2021. Then find a way to lose Norm. Can still go with Giannis/Siakam/OG/Lowry with Matt, Terrence and our two draft picks.

                  2020 is treading water. Bring back Serge and someone else for a 1 year deal. Just stay under tax and we're set.

                  Can find someone on a vet minimum or someone from the G-league to play center 2021. Those guys are always kicking around. Or we could draft one this year or next. Or hope Dewan figures it out.

                  I'd prefer Giannis to play C most of the time anyway in the playoffs.
                  Yeah but you have to be able to sign Giannis, and telling him he has to play C is probably not the way to do that.

                  I don't think it's a no brainer, but the plan B if you make that move (Dipo, Lowry, Turner here long term) is way better than the plan B (Lowry, Powell, maybe FVV if he is cheap enough this offseason) if you don't. While the plan A has Giannis in it, so the rest is largely irrelevant even if one plan A is technically better than the other.
                  twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                  • Guys, Oladipo is TRASH. He's had one good season. That one good season was before the injury. Oladipo hasn't looked the same after the injury. I wouldn't touch him with a 10 foot pole.

                    Y'all are so desperate to find that second tier star like Jimmy Butler - Oladipo ain't that guy.
                    Mamba Mentality

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                    • The Great One wrote: View Post
                      Guys, Oladipo is TRASH. He's had one good season. That one good season was before the injury. Oladipo hasn't looked the same after the injury. I wouldn't touch him with a 10 foot pole.

                      Y'all are so desperate to find that second tier star like Jimmy Butler - Oladipo ain't that guy.
                      The point of an Oladipo acquisition is we would get him for a year before deciding whether to re-sign him, for how much, and be able to include as much information as possible about who is available in 2021 at the time we make that decision.

                      There is serious upside there, and the downside would be we are in roughly the same spot (give or take an FVV or Turner) to pitch Giannis or failing that keep our other free agents.
                      twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                      • The Great One wrote: View Post
                        Guys, Oladipo is TRASH. He's had one good season. That one good season was before the injury. Oladipo hasn't looked the same after the injury. I wouldn't touch him with a 10 foot pole.

                        Y'all are so desperate to find that second tier star like Jimmy Butler - Oladipo ain't that guy.
                        I really think landing another second tier star (then if Siakam rebounds to have a solid season) is the key to bringing Giannis here.

                        That second star is not Lowry as his age and the length of term that Giannis will get.
                        So keeping FVV and Serge and/or Gasol, re-upping Lowry "cheap" with Pascal ain't going to do it.

                        Comment


                        • The Great One wrote: View Post
                          Guys, Oladipo is TRASH. He's had one good season. That one good season was before the injury. Oladipo hasn't looked the same after the injury. I wouldn't touch him with a 10 foot pole.

                          Y'all are so desperate to find that second tier star like Jimmy Butler - Oladipo ain't that guy.
                          Give him another year. If he sucks by the end of the upcoming season, then sure, he's trash. Not yet though. The upside is a really great pairing of Pascal and Oladipo who can both shoot, drive, defend, and pass at an elite level.

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                          • planetmars wrote: View Post

                            Staying "cheap" is playing for the vet minimum - $2.5M. That's a hard ask for a guy that's been the best player on this team.

                            I prefer the plan of just dropping Fred. Use his new salary and give it to Lowry in 2021. Then find a way to lose Norm. Can still go with Giannis/Siakam/OG/Lowry with Matt, Terrence and our two draft picks.

                            2020 is treading water. Bring back Serge and someone else for a 1 year deal. Just stay under tax and we're set.

                            Can find someone on a vet minimum or someone from the G-league to play center 2021. Those guys are always kicking around. Or we could draft one this year or next. Or hope Dewan figures it out.

                            I'd prefer Giannis to play C most of the time anyway in the playoffs.
                            But if Giannis re ups with the bucks then what happens. Can always let victor walk in a year if needed.

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                            • G__Deane wrote: View Post

                              I really think landing another second tier star (then if Siakam rebounds to have a solid season) is the key to bringing Giannis here.

                              That second star is not Lowry as his age and the length of term that Giannis will get.
                              So keeping FVV and Serge and/or Gasol, re-upping Lowry "cheap" with Pascal ain't going to do it.
                              I agree. Oladipo is not that guy though. Raptors need a star SG or SF that can create his own shot. The 2 that comes to mind is Beal adn LaVine. None of those guys are available though.

                              Mamba Mentality

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                              • Rudy Bargnani wrote: View Post

                                But if Giannis re ups with the bucks then what happens. Can always let victor walk in a year if needed.
                                Yes, but the previous discussion was more about getting both Victor and Myles Turner. And I don't want Turner.

                                My ultimate preference is to give the Raptors a chance to sign Giannis, yet also keep Lowry if that chance comes to fruition.

                                So in order to keep Lowry and get enough cap space for a max free agent we would have to either let Fred walk or to trade him for a contract that expires in 2021. Or hope and pray Lowry is okay with a measly $2.5M contract. That's why I'm not a fan of getting a guy like Myles Turner. Even though he'd be kind of a perfect big.. can block shots, can shoot 3's. Is young too. Its that his contract expires in 2023. That $18M contract will kill any chance we had at getting Giannis. Or prevents us from keeping Kyle unless we don't chase a max free agent that season. It's too big of a risk for me.

                                I don't mind getting Dipo at all. He's perfect since his contract expires in 2021. Get him, ideally for Fred and a pick (we'll have to broaden the trade due to some cap rules). Then if Giannis stays in Milwaukee, we have options on Dipo. Can keep him (assuming he wants to stay). We can do a S&T with him. Or we can just let him walk if he continues to play poorly.

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