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What would be your final roster?

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  • #16
    white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    Hayes is great as the 3rd stringer on our team when the roster is healthy. He brings veteran leadership (which was fairly evident last year), has a high bball IQ which is good for young guys, and throw in his value as an expiring contract and again, with similar logic to Fields, it's worth it to wait and see if his value is maximized in a good trade, rather than just dumping him to sign a guy who's basically not better except for size. Stiemsma does very little well. And even though he contests shots better, he's probably not as good a team defender for us as Hayes, who does well for us as an anchor in terms of his communication and positioning.

    The issues arise mostly if JV goes down, as we lack any player with true C size we can use for 20-25+ mpg. But Stiemsma is not really capable of that. Our success through such a period would depend more on our current crop of bigs stepping up. Amir probably shifting to starting C and getting at least 15-20 minutes there. Hansbrough ready to step up at the PF spot, and whatever C minutes are needed, especially if matchups are bad for Hayes and Bebe is struggling. If Bebe can have some success at times against longer and more athletic guys that'd be great. And Hayes stepping up especialy against good post players (most of whom are not above the rim type guys anyway), and probably anybody who isn't too long/athletic as he can give Amir a break as being the defensive anchor (which is more dependent on communication/IQ than length).
    Hayes is a good player if he's a 3rd stringer but on our team he isn't on our team he is the backup center and I just don't think he's good enough to play that role. Maybe I just don't give Hayes enough credit. And I don't want Amir having to log 15-20 at center if Jonas were to go down. Amir's ankles just can't handle a lot of minutes. And as we saw in the playoffs we really need a healthy Amir to be successful. I rather have Lou Williams play back up point if Kyle went down than to have Amir play too many minutes at Center. Not because Amir isn't good enough obviously but because his body just can't handle that many minutes and pounding anymore. And when Amir isn't at least close to being 100% we aren't as good overall. But you might be right. For some reason I just feel we need a back up center more than a third string point guard since we have Lou now. But that's just me. Steismsa to me is like a mix of Hayes and Bebe so he's perfect. He has experience and a decent bball IQ which Hayes has but Bebe doesn't. And then he's more mobile and can block shots at a high rate which Bebe has but Hayes doesn't.
    I relish negativity and disappointment. It is not healthy. Somebody buy me a pony.

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    • #17
      GLF wrote: View Post
      Hayes is a good player if he's a 3rd stringer but on our team he isn't on our team he is the backup center and I just don't think he's good enough to play that role. Maybe I just don't give Hayes enough credit. And I don't want Amir having to log 15-20 at center if Jonas were to go down. Amir's ankles just can't handle a lot of minutes. And as we saw in the playoffs we really need a healthy Amir to be successful. I rather have Lou Williams play back up point if Kyle went down than to have Amir play too many minutes at Center. Not because Amir isn't good enough obviously but because his body just can't handle that many minutes and pounding anymore. And when Amir isn't at least close to being 100% we aren't as good overall. But you might be right. For some reason I just feel we need a back up center more than a third string point guard since we have Lou now. But that's just me. Steismsa to me is like a mix of Hayes and Bebe so he's perfect. He has experience and a decent bball IQ which Hayes has but Bebe doesn't. And then he's more mobile and can block shots at a high rate which Bebe has but Hayes doesn't.
      I think you're overestimating Stiemsma, though that is just my opinion. He's not that mobile, and he blocks shots because he goes after a lot of them, meaning he fouls like crazy. He doesn't rebound that well, and doesn't stand out defensively really in any way. He's a backup on a bad team, not a good one. He's a 3rd stringer on a good team, and we have 2 3rd stringers in Bebe and Hayes.

      Lets not kid ourselves. Stiemsma doesn't do much of anything for this roster when it's healthy. Jonas will be gobbling up 30+ mpg, and Amir and Pat will gobble up most of the rest of the big man minutes, with other guys seeing spot minutes. And if Jonas goes down we'll struggle, with Stiemsma making at best a very small difference there. He's a decent guy against other bench players. You don't want him against starter level players pretty much ever.

      We don't need to make a move to make room to sign him. Literally any C with length and NBA experience is an acceptable alternative if injuries force the team to look for a big with size.

      I don't even hate Stiemsma either. He's an NBA caliber big man, but again he's a 3rd stringer and we don't need one of those. I'm sure Bebe can average 3-4 rebounds and a block in 12-15 mpg if we give him those minutes. He's also at least as long and more mobile. Hayes is at least as good, if not a better post defender. He's far more immovable on the block, and has veteran savvy so he rarely falls for any fakes, hesitation moves, etc...So yeah, I think people are overestimating what Stiemsma really adds to this roster. Basically he's a thug and that's the only thing he brings that Hayes/Bebe don't. Pass. We're already a gritty team.

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      • #18
        white men can't jump wrote: View Post
        I think you're overestimating Stiemsma, though that is just my opinion. He's not that mobile, and he blocks shots because he goes after a lot of them, meaning he fouls like crazy. He doesn't rebound that well, and doesn't stand out defensively really in any way. He's a backup on a bad team, not a good one. He's a 3rd stringer on a good team, and we have 2 3rd stringers in Bebe and Hayes.

        Lets not kid ourselves. Stiemsma doesn't do much of anything for this roster when it's healthy. Jonas will be gobbling up 30+ mpg, and Amir and Pat will gobble up most of the rest of the big man minutes, with other guys seeing spot minutes. And if Jonas goes down we'll struggle, with Stiemsma making at best a very small difference there. He's a decent guy against other bench players. You don't want him against starter level players pretty much ever.

        We don't need to make a move to make room to sign him. Literally any C with length and NBA experience is an acceptable alternative if injuries force the team to look for a big with size.

        I don't even hate Stiemsma either. He's an NBA caliber big man, but again he's a 3rd stringer and we don't need one of those. I'm sure Bebe can average 3-4 rebounds and a block in 12-15 mpg if we give him those minutes. He's also at least as long and more mobile. Hayes is at least as good, if not a better post defender. He's far more immovable on the block, and has veteran savvy so he rarely falls for any fakes, hesitation moves, etc...So yeah, I think people are overestimating what Stiemsma really adds to this roster. Basically he's a thug and that's the only thing he brings that Hayes/Bebe don't. Pass. We're already a gritty team.
        Good point. Well if they pick Cherry over Stiemsma and Jonas goes down (knock on wood) hopefully we don't come to regret it.
        I relish negativity and disappointment. It is not healthy. Somebody buy me a pony.

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        • #19
          GLF wrote: View Post
          Good point. Well if they pick Cherry over Stiemsma and Jonas goes down (knock on wood) hopefully we don't come to regret it.
          If Jonas goes down Amir starts at center and Bebe tries to replace Amir. Hands could also fill in as a low post scorer. Stiesma's job is to foul hard and rebound, his minutes aren't effected by the rotational players. Hayes is used against low post scorers like Jefferson. Poor front court depth left 2Pat, Novak and Hayes left in on rebounding and defensive situations.

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          • #20
            raptors999 wrote: View Post
            If Jonas goes down Amir starts at center and Bebe tries to replace Amir. Hands could also fill in as a low post scorer. Stiesma's job is to foul hard and rebound, his minutes aren't effected by the rotational players. Hayes is used against low post scorers like Jefferson. Poor front court depth left 2Pat, Novak and Hayes left in on rebounding and defensive situations.

            I think a better question is given one injury in the starting lineup which position is in the most need of depth. PG I think we have stop gap measures that are DECENT. SF I think Hamilton would be decent but We do have JJohnson and Fields... and a chance to give Bruno a run. SG we have Tross who could naturally slide into Dekobe's role and Lou. PF we are OK at. Center we have BEBE and thats it.

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            • #21
              Cherry, Hayes and Hamilton will get the cut. That makes our roster look like this:

              Lowry/GV
              Demar/Lou/Fields(Also will see time at SF)
              Ross/Johnson/Bruno
              Amir/Hansbrough
              JV/Steisma/Bebe

              This looks like a solid roster to me..... and it gives our younger players time besides garbage minutes.
              Axel wrote:
              Now Cody can stop posting about this guy and we have a poster to blame if anything goes wrong!!
              KeonClark wrote:
              We won't hear back from him. He dissapears into thin air and reappears when you least expect it. Ten is an enigma. Ten is a legend. Ten for the motherfucking win.
              KeonClark wrote:
              I can't wait until the playoffs start.

              Until then, opinions are like assholes. Everyone has one and they most often stink

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              • #22
                Lowry/GV/Williams
                Demar/Williams/Fields
                Ross/JJ/Bruno
                Amir/2Pat/Hands Bro
                JV/Steisma/Hayes/Bebe
                The name's Bond, James Bond.

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                • #23
                  Hayes and/or Fields are not getting "cut." They're on expiring guaranteed deals. They'll either be traded or their contracts'll be allowed to expire.

                  I'm on board with 007 (above). Hayes is fine in specific situations but pretty limited due to lack of height and mobility. Steimsma doesn't have the same vet savvy but he does have the height, mobility, and shot-blocking that Hayes lacks. It pays to have depth at the 4/5 for intentional fouls, and because the one guy in the (likely) starting lineup that you want go out of your way to keep healthy is Amir. The fewer minutes he's asked to play the 5, the better.

                  Besides, Williams can fill in as a 3rd point guard when needed and as the Miami Heat and the triangle offense have shown for years, you don't necessarily need a traditional PG to bring the ball up and initiate the offense. The Raps could look at having a guy like DD bring the ball up while Williams plays off the ball in those situations.
                  "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

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                  • #24
                    Yeah, any chance of Fields or Hayes or any other guaranteed contract getting waived and stretched went out the window September 1st. After that date, the current season of a waived contract does not get stretched - only future seasons. So for expiring contracts, they don't get stretched at all. Meaning that we wouldn't be able to keep their replacement (presumably a second of Stiemsma/Hamilton/Cherry) without going over the tax.
                    twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                    • #25
                      DanH wrote: View Post
                      Yeah, any chance of Fields or Hayes or any other guaranteed contract getting waived and stretched went out the window September 1st. After that date, the current season of a waived contract does not get stretched - only future seasons. So for expiring contracts, they don't get stretched at all. Meaning that we wouldn't be able to keep their replacement (presumably a second of Stiemsma/Hamilton/Cherry) without going over the tax.
                      And that is why I automatically read any post by DanH!

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                      • #26
                        Puffer wrote: View Post
                        And that is why I automatically read any post by DanH!
                        I propose a new poll:

                        Dan H. is the message board alias of:

                        __ Bobby Webster

                        __ Steve Fruitman

                        Bobby's currently with the team. Fruitman's "temporarily retired" (just found him on LinkedIn) and may be trolling these message boards for kicks...

                        http://www.raptorsrepublic.com/2013/...es-gherardini/
                        "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Only way more than one of Hamilton, Cherry, or Stiemsma stay around is if there is a trade with more players going out than coming back. I'd like that to happen but am not going to hold my breath. Of those 3 players, I'd like to see Stiemsma stick because I anticipate growing pains from Bebe and Hayes is not the answer at backup C.

                          Without a trade.....

                          PG: Lowry, GV
                          SG: DeRozan, Williams, Fields
                          SF: Ross, JJ, Bruno
                          PF: Amir, PP, Hansbrough
                          C: JV, Hayes, Steimsma, Bebe

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                          • #28
                            007 wrote: View Post
                            Lowry/GV/Williams
                            Demar/Williams/Fields
                            Ross/JJ/Bruno
                            Amir/2Pat/Hands Bro
                            JV/Steisma/Hayes/Bebe
                            this the way I see it.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              mcHAPPY wrote: View Post
                              Only way more than one of Hamilton, Cherry, or Stiemsma stay around is if there is a trade with more players going out than coming back. I'd like that to happen but am not going to hold my breath. Of those 3 players, I'd like to see Stiemsma stick because I anticipate growing pains from Bebe and Hayes is not the answer at backup C.

                              Without a trade.....

                              PG: Lowry, GV
                              SG: DeRozan, Williams, Fields
                              SF: Ross, JJ, Bruno
                              PF: Amir, PP, Hansbrough
                              C: JV, Hayes, Steimsma, Bebe
                              Agreed. I more want it this way because of Amir than anything else. We REALLY NEED to preserve him. Clearly his ankles are now officially made of glass, so I don't want him logging any minutes at center if we can prevent it. Hayes and Bebe really just aren't good enough. Where as Lou Williams will do just fine as the backup point guard for a few games if Lowry went down. Also yes Amir always plays through injuries but he doesn't play as well when injured like he used to. A couple of years ago when he would play through injuries you wouldn't even know he was injured unless someone told you. Now the drop of from healthy Amir and injured Amir is much higher. At least based off of last year from what I can remember.
                              I relish negativity and disappointment. It is not healthy. Somebody buy me a pony.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                I think we need to have an RR friendly betting competition on who gets the 15th roster spot as that is the most compelling story line of training camp, personally I am with team Cherry. The 'steamer' makes zero sense on this team even as a practice body, Casey would have to write-off Fields completely if Hamilton were to make-it. And for a practice body Cherry makes the most sense, Lowry and Williams need a quick 6'3 defensive guard to practice against. And of the three Cherry has the most upside.
                                -"You can’t run from me. I mean, my heart don’t bleed Kool-Aid."
                                -"“I ain’t no diva! I don’t have no blond hair, red hair. I’m Reggie Evans.”

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