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JV comparable big man production in the modern NBA

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  • Barolt wrote: View Post
    Also, all the guys averaging 16/10 are getting at least 23.5% usage, where Love sits. JV's usage is at 20.1%.
    More importantly, they all play 30 mpg or more. JV plays 26. Get him on the court, he'll find a way even with the schemes giving him touches.
    Heir, Prince of Cambridge

    If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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    • Axel wrote: View Post
      More importantly, they all play 30 mpg or more. JV plays 26. Get him on the court, he'll find a way even with the schemes giving him touches.
      There are only 3 guys in the NBA playing 20MPG with 20%+ usage, 58%+ TS%, 18%+ TRB%. KAT, Jonas and Kanter. Jonas again has the lowest usage percentage among the three. Kanter is a bench player, and KAT is a rookie. Jonas is the oldest of the three. But, 'he's not ready'.
      twitter.com/anthonysmdoyle

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      • Axel wrote: View Post
        21 players have managed to produce at least 20+10 (points and boards) this season in 30 MP or less. JV has done it twice(including last night).

        Only others to do it twice this year, LaMarcus Aldridge, Andre Drummond, Hassan Whiteside, Dwight Howard and Kenneth Faried.

        Efficiency + proficiency = a damn good player.

        For the elite cut off mark of 16+10 (for centers), there are 5 players in the NBA averaging that, Drummond, Love, Davis, Cousins, and Pau. Drummond, Cousins and Pau are the only full time centers on that list (Davis is about 50/50 between PF & C, Love plays next to Mozgov or TT). JV currently averages 12.2 and 9.2, but in just 26 MPG, a per36 of 16.6 and 12.5. The guy is there if he played more.
        There are only 15 qualified players who average 16 and 10 per 36 this year (JV is not one of them due to his lack of games played so far, not qualified). That's a pretty nice, small group to be in in terms of elite rebounders who also score significant amounts.
        twitter.com/dhackett1565

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        • DanH wrote: View Post
          There are only 15 qualified players who average 16 and 10 per 36 this year (JV is not one of them due to his lack of games played so far, not qualified). That's a pretty nice, small group to be in in terms of elite rebounders who also score significant amounts.
          Of Players having started at least 1 game averaging 16/10 per 36, JV has the lowest usage.
          twitter.com/anthonysmdoyle

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          • DanH wrote: View Post
            There are only 15 qualified players who average 16 and 10 per 36 this year (JV is not one of them due to his lack of games played so far, not qualified). That's a pretty nice, small group to be in in terms of elite rebounders who also score significant amounts.
            Amazing to think what he could produce with more minutes AND more touches/involvement in the offence.

            I honestly believe that if you switch him with Drummond, JV would put up similar stats. JV is less athletic but better polished scorer, so less rebounds but less missed FGA either.
            Heir, Prince of Cambridge

            If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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            • Axel wrote: View Post
              Amazing to think what he could produce with more minutes AND more touches/involvement in the offence.

              I honestly believe that if you switch him with Drummond, JV would put up similar stats. JV is less athletic but better polished scorer, so less rebounds but less missed FGA either.
              I think SVG would be thrilled with either JV or Drummond, let's put it that way.

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              • As spelled out in OP, 16 PPG and 10 RPG is the magic number for elite big men.

                So far JV is averaging 16 PPG and 11 RPG and is finally over 30 mpg after being stuck at 26 mpg for the last two seasons.

                Last year, 5 centers hit the mark; Boogie, Davis, Drummond, Pau and KAT. So far this year, JV is one of 6; with Boogie*, Davis, Whiteside, Howard* and Nurkic joining him.

                * - I rounded up their numbers to meet the threshold, as I searched the parameters of 15/9 instead.

                The losses of Sullinger and Biyombo might be the best thing to happen for JV, as Casey really is limited in his options and JV should finally get the minutes he deserves. He has shown that even in this guard dominant offence, he can produce.

                One can only imagine what he'd put up if he were the actual focus of the offence like Davis or Cousins but the value of a guy who can produce despite low usage is incredible and extremely valuable for a team that employs Lowry and Demar to run the offence. His 21.6 Usage% this year (up from 20.6%) is lower than all of the other 11 (players spanning 2 seasons), with 9 of the 11 being 24% or higher. That is an elite fit for our team, where the guards will dominate the offence.

                With JV's contract extension paying him $14M - $17.6M in the next 4 years, he might be the best value contract in the NBA for non-rookies.

                Consider that teams are paying this year:
                Allen Crabbe $18.5M
                Biyombo $17M
                Evan Turner $16M
                Mozgov $16M
                Mahinmi $15.9M
                Robin Lopez $13M
                John Henson $12.5M
                Miles Plumlee $12.5M
                Jon Leuer $11M

                Add on the recent extensions and next year you can add Steven Adams $22M, Oladipo $21M, and Gobert $21M while JV will make $15.5M.

                Elite production, elite fit, fantastic contract value - that is how you build a championship team.

                Now if we could just get his hair game back on track.
                Heir, Prince of Cambridge

                If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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                • Axel wrote: View Post
                  With JV's contract extension paying him $14M - $17.6M in the next 4 years, he might be the best value contract in the NBA for non-rookies.
                  One note. I'm pleased as punch and utterly unsurprised by JV's production, but we only have him locked up for 3 years - he'll almost certainly opt out of the 4th year player option. But I agree that he'll be one of the best value contracts in the NBA for the next three years!
                  twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                  • DanH wrote: View Post
                    One note. I'm pleased as punch and utterly unsurprised by JV's production, but we only have him locked up for 3 years - he'll almost certainly opt out of the 4th year player option. But I agree that he'll be one of the best value contracts in the NBA for the next three years!
                    Bird rights This team has money and they can't tell me otherwise..Canadian dollar or not
                    It's Klaw Season. Time to hunt.

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                    • The other thing I'll add is as Lowry ages, Valanciunas does as well, except in a better way. He should get smarter and make up for Lowrys lost production, while I suspect Lowry will still be a plus to have starting until hopefully 36.

                      We still just need one more stud, either through an amazing mid to late round pick or via trade. If you don't have Lebron or Curry you basically need 4 fairly elite players and a good bench.
                      It's Klaw Season. Time to hunt.

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                      • Brian Windhorst made the point on Zach Lowe's podcast that the people saying stuff like "JV should fire his agent" (because Zach was sure he would have gotten a max offer sheet) aren't from Lithuania. It might be stereotypical or it might have a small truth in it.
                        Two beer away from being two beers away.

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                        • KeonClark wrote: View Post
                          The other thing I'll add is as Lowry ages, Valanciunas does as well, except in a better way. He should get smarter and make up for Lowrys lost production, while I suspect Lowry will still be a plus to have starting until hopefully 36.

                          We still just need one more stud, either through an amazing mid to late round pick or via trade. If you don't have Lebron or Curry you basically need 4 fairly elite players and a good bench.
                          This is why I'm all in on making any huge PF upgrade trade that doesn't involve JV going out. JV is the hope that we hang the future of the franchise on when Lowry starts to decline.

                          The redundancy on the bench means we can probably keep a strong bench even if we shed major assets in a deal - lose Poeltl, Siakam, Sully, Ross and picks and you still have CoJo, Pat, BeBe and Powell. Lose BeBe, Ross (we basically have to move Ross for salary purposes unless someone wants Carroll), Siakam and CoJo? Still have Pat, Wright, Poeltl and Powell. Lose CoJo, Pat, Powell, Poeltl and picks? Still have BeBe, Siakam, Wright and Ross, plus Sully this year. And odds are you don't see 4 outgoing players in a deal - probably 2 to 3, plus picks.
                          twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                          • KeonClark wrote: View Post
                            Bird rights This team has money and they can't tell me otherwise..Canadian dollar or not
                            True, but the point was whether JV would be a value contract - in the 4th year he'll be making a very different salary, which was my point. I certainly hope he ends up a lifer.
                            twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                            • DanH wrote: View Post
                              This is why I'm all in on making any huge PF upgrade trade that doesn't involve JV going out. JV is the hope that we hang the future of the franchise on when Lowry starts to decline.

                              The redundancy on the bench means we can probably keep a strong bench even if we shed major assets in a deal - lose Poeltl, Siakam, Sully, Ross and picks and you still have CoJo, Pat, BeBe and Powell. Lose BeBe, Ross (we basically have to move Ross for salary purposes unless someone wants Carroll), Siakam and CoJo? Still have Pat, Wright, Poeltl and Powell. Lose CoJo, Pat, Powell, Poeltl and picks? Still have BeBe, Siakam, Wright and Ross, plus Sully this year. And odds are you don't see 4 outgoing players in a deal - probably 2 to 3, plus picks.
                              This Raps team is so deeeeeep.

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                              • KeonClark wrote: View Post
                                We still just need one more stud, either through an amazing mid to late round pick or via trade. If you don't have Lebron or Curry you basically need 4 fairly elite players and a good bench.
                                Honestly, if Demar plays like he is, JV plays like he did last post-season, and Lowry plays like he can - all at the same time in the playoffs, I'd like our chances vs a Cavs team that relied on inconsistent (and one-way) Kyrie and Love. Warriors might be another beast all together but I think the East is winnable if Casey can get all three going at once (which we've never seen before).
                                Heir, Prince of Cambridge

                                If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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