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JV comparable big man production in the modern NBA

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  • #16
    S.R. wrote: View Post
    Great post.

    A Bogut/Horford level of impact is a very attainable goal for Jonas. His size, post potential, and shooting make his offensive ceiling higher, but Horford is a better "little things" glue-guy with better mobility and Bogut is a better defender.

    I don't know if his passing and offensive awareness can get there, but ideally Jonas becomes a very well-rounded big like Marc Gasol. A guy like that is a great anchor for a team.
    If JV wins DPOY award one year. I will never say another negative thing about him


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    @Chr1st1anL

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    • #17
      Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
      If JV wins DPOY award one year. I will never say another negative thing about him
      You seem to have set your bar for JV much higher than you did Demar, no?

      Did you only become a Demar fan once he made the All-Star team?

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      • #18
        Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
        If JV wins DPOY award one year. I will never say another negative thing about him


        Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
        Go ahead and keep saying negative things about JV. When he gets more touches and better stats your the one who's gonna look like an idiot
        "Both teams played hard my man" - Sheed

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        • #19
          Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
          This why I don't like numbers. There is no way JV is a better defender than Marc Gasol. I also do agree with 20 & 10 comment. How many years did bosh average 20&10? How many of those years did we make the playoffs?


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          DRTG is heavily influenced by team numbers. DRAPM is more isolated from it.
          twitter.com/dhackett1565

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          • #20
            Horford 2008/09 +1.8 DRAPM
            Bogut 2006/07 +2.6 DRAPM
            Okafor 2005/06 +1.5 DRAPM
            Jonas 2013/14 -1.7 DRAPM

            Jonas has a ways to go to be as effective defensively as that group was.
            twitter.com/dhackett1565

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            • #21
              Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
              This why I don't like numbers. There is no way JV is a better defender than Marc Gasol. I also do agree with 20 & 10 comment. How many years did bosh average 20&10? How many of those years did we make the playoffs?


              Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
              Remember that the initial screening criteria was only for a players second season. So none of this is to say that JV is better than Marc Gasol defensively, but rather that in their sophomore season, JV held his own and shouldn't be written off defensively. Better defenders had worse stats than him, so no need to throw him to the flames for his D.

              I didn't look into Bosh or other power forwards except to see how many 20-10 players there were last season and if any qualified for the initial screening.

              Bosh prime seasons here were quite wasted thanks to error of the past (Bargnani, Turk, JO, etc). To say that a 20-10 player is of no value towards succeeding in the playoffs is simply stupid. A reliable scorer who rebounds, regardless of the position, is of great value to a team. And quite frankly, what relevance does past team success have to do with JV? Seems like you are misunderstanding the facts (2nd season comparables isn't the same thing as saying one is better than another) and twisting them due to your jaded view of anything positive to do with JV.

              The whole point of this exercise was to offer a renewed perspective on what a successful Center is in today's NBA. 16-10 is quite elite for the position and JV seems to be well on his way to cracking that territory in the next 1-3 seasons.
              Heir, Prince of Cambridge

              If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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              • #22
                Great job Axel - Love these kind of posts.

                It won't be easy for JV to be an all-star even if he throws up 16-10 type of numbers. They removed the center position so that hurts but even if they brought that back he has to compete with the likes of Drummond, Embiid/Noel, Noah/Gasol, Horford, Jefferson, Lopez, Hibbert and Gortat.

                Key obviously is team success and even then DD and KL both have a leg up over JV for all-star recognition in my opinion. JV is also not a sexy player.. so he's not going to have crowd support outside of Toronto. So he'll post likely never get the fan vote.

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                • #23
                  DanH wrote: View Post
                  Horford 2008/09 +1.8 DRAPM
                  Bogut 2006/07 +2.6 DRAPM
                  Okafor 2005/06 +1.5 DRAPM
                  Jonas 2013/14 -1.7 DRAPM

                  Jonas has a ways to go to be as effective defensively as that group was.
                  This will have to change for JV to average 15&10. Well as long as Casey is the coach.


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                  @Chr1st1anL

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                  • #24
                    Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
                    This will have to change for JV to average 15&10. Well as long as Casey is the coach.
                    His DRAPM has nothing to do with whether or not he averages 15 and 10... Has everything to do with what he holds the other guys to. Totally different.

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                    • #25
                      Joey wrote: View Post
                      His DRAPM has nothing to do with whether or not he averages 15 and 10... Has everything to do with what he holds the other guys to. Totally different.
                      I'm assuming Chr1s1anL means Casey won't give him the minutes unless he plays good defense, so his chances of getting 15 and 10 go down.

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                      • #26
                        Puffer wrote: View Post
                        I'm assuming Chr1s1anL means Casey won't give him the minutes unless he plays good defense, so his chances of getting 15 and 10 go down.
                        Which is kinda funny since Christian with the 1's is the one who pointed out that Casey expects 15-10 from JV this year. So either Casey intends to give him the minutes or he is still true believer in JV's progress.
                        Heir, Prince of Cambridge

                        If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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                        • #27
                          Puffer wrote: View Post
                          I'm assuming Chr1s1anL means Casey won't give him the minutes unless he plays good defense, so his chances of getting 15 and 10 go down.
                          That line of thinking is heavilied flawed when one considers the enormous minutes DeRozan has logged since Casey's first day.

                          I have a theory. Casey treats rooks and Sophia like shit. He doesn't treat players like vets until year 3. We'll see how that theory plays out this year with jv and Ross.

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                          • #28
                            Puffer wrote: View Post
                            I'm assuming Chr1s1anL means Casey won't give him the minutes unless he plays good defense, so his chances of getting 15 and 10 go down.
                            Exactly my point! Especially with two defensive Center behind. Yes I do believe that the Steamer will make the team.


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                            @Chr1st1anL

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                            • #29
                              I don't know about DRAPM (or rather, DRPM)....Still seems like it's not quite right. It's definitely a big step in the right direction compared to more basic +/- stats...but if you look at the results enough, it still just doesn't pass the smell test for me.

                              I mean, Paul Pierce the 3rd rated SF by DRAPM (sorry, meant DRPM)? How the fuck is that possible? It can't possibly adequately adjust for things if that's what it comes up with. Some other random picks in the SF spot....Dunleavy at 10th when he's been a poor defender for pretty much his whole career....LeBron at 28th behind such stalwarts like James Jones and Hedo Turkoglu.....

                              At a quick glance, it shows most guys pretty much in the area you'd expect, but again, there are just too many "WTF?" results for certain players.

                              All this to say that in general, I still basically don't really like any stats I've seen for the defensive side of things.

                              **Gotta correct myself...I was looking at ESPN's RPM, which is different from DRAPM, but ESPN claims it's supposed to be even more accurate....
                              Last edited by white men can't jump; Wed Sep 17, 2014, 08:14 PM.

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                              • #30
                                Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
                                Exactly my point! Especially with two defensive Center behind. Yes I do believe that the Steamer will make the team.

                                Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                                Yes much more logical. JV is going to lose minutes to a guy who didn't crack the NBA until age 26, and last year averaged (as a 28 yr old) 2.9 PPG and 4.1 RPG while largely being a bench player on the mighty Pelicans. At least the guy who's never played a game of NBA ball is a possible rotation player. Stiemsma is a non-factor (even if he makes the roster).
                                Heir, Prince of Cambridge

                                If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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