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JV comparable big man production in the modern NBA

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  • white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    ...there's no reason at this point to think he will become above average....
    Except for the fact that he is still very young and is going to be under the watchful eye of the NBA's best strength and conditioning coaches, one of it's better defensive minded coaches and is going to have mentors and examples of what hard work can achieve in DD, JV, Lowry and Amir. Those reasons make me think it is a sure thing that he will become above average. Of course it helps that we regularly hear reports that he is a "sponge" and a "hard worker."

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    • Yabadabayolo wrote: View Post
      I agree on the premise that bruno is raw in almost all aspects of the game other than perimeter shooting. But due to his rawness. The raptors can basically mould him into the type of player they want. He has absolutely no labels on him right now other than the phrase that he's the Brazilian durant. It may not be true but it sure can as hell can be a possibility. There's no way to actually judge what he'll be at this point but at the same time there's no way disregard the fact of him becoming a durant lite/Batim clone/anyone other comparison.

      I don't know if it'll ever happen. But imagine having a 7'0 sf in your starting lineup. It's dreams like these that get my pants wet.
      I actually think you have this backwards, and this is kind of my point to all comments on Bruno I've posted in the end:

      It means that they don't know what kind of player they have. Raw does not mean "can mold however we want", it means "we don't know what we have yet"...

      He could end up a SF à la Batum/Po....or he could end up more of a stretch 4. He could end up a classic tweener like an Al Harrington or something, who knows. Lots of possibilites, so they should avoid limiting his development options and give him as many different opportunities as possible to see what works best for him.

      Some of the worst fails in developing players were when teams refused to play them outside their projected position when drafted, with the most obvious one I can think of being Diaw rotting in Atlanta as a 6'8'' PG (because Atlanta had exactly your thought of "wow this guy would be so big at his position!") and then being a 6th man caliber player as soon as he switched to point-forward spot in PHX.

      I mean, you talk about drooling over a 7 foot SF, but what about a 7 foot PF who has the athleticism of a SF, the shotblocking of a C, and can shoot the 3? He has potential to mismatch at either spot, so one doesn't really get me more excited than the other.
      Last edited by white men can't jump; Fri Sep 19, 2014, 03:56 PM.

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      • Puffer wrote: View Post
        Except for the fact that he is still very young and is going to be under the watchful eye of the NBA's best strength and conditioning coaches, one of it's better defensive minded coaches and is going to have mentors and examples of what hard work can achieve in DD, JV, Lowry and Amir. Those reasons make me think it is a sure thing that he will become above average. Of course it helps that we regularly hear reports that he is a "sponge" and a "hard worker."
        Should've said "evidence".

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        • Well Bosh after his first year in Nba was 6'11" -210 lbs and wingspan was 7'3"3/4 versus Bruno at draft time was 6'9" -205 lbs and Wingspan was 7'7".

          Now the talent aspect maybe two years delayed but the point of a power forward maybe very relevant since Bosh took two years to move to 235 lbs. But Bruno 's outside shot maybe as developed as Bosh is today for the 3 pt shooting.

          Athletically, if he can develop his skillset of a SF Raptors may have the PF that everybody dreams about as Bruno gains 30lb and maybe grows an inch to 6 ft 10" with super long arm length. By his third year he will be getting meaningful minutes at 3/4 position.
          Last edited by Heatdreamer; Fri Sep 19, 2014, 05:21 PM.

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          • Let's not forget about our other Brazilian prospect as well. Bebe has potential to be a game changer.


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            • Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
              Let's not forget about our other Brazilian prospect as well. Bebe has potential to be a game changer.

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              He does, but we already have a better read on what his game is and what his role will be.

              Bruno has way more intrigue because of he's young, very raw, and has freaky physical tools that open lots of possibilities in terms of roles and even positions he could play.

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              • white men can't jump wrote: View Post
                He does, but we already have a better read on what his game is and what his role will be.

                Bruno has way more intrigue because of he's young, very raw, and has freaky physical tools that open lots of possibilities in terms of roles and even positions he could play.
                What read did you get from summer league? He has the same freaky physical tools as Bruno.


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                • Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
                  What read did you get from summer league? He has the same freaky physical tools as Bruno.

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                  From summer league? He's 22 years old and has always been a defensive C with efficient but limited and raw offence. He's been playing in Spain since 2009, which is better basketball than Summer League.

                  Again, with Bruno it's just that he's so young, with such limited experience, such unique tools opening up so many possibilities. His tools are way freakier than Nogueira. Bruno actually has the potential to be a 5-position player defensively. Not saying it's likely, but it's not out of the realm of possibility. Throw in the fact that he already has good shooting form that gives reason to be optimistic for his 3pt shooting, and he also has the potential with his physical tools to be at least a 3-position player offensively...again just saying it's at least possible.

                  Bebe is at best a 2-position player, and apart from an ability to hedge well, doesn't have a lot of skills that translate well to playing beyond the interior on either end. So even at PF there's probably limitations for when and how much you want to use him in today's NBA. And offensively, while a jumpshot is the easiest thing to keep working on long-term, his lack of development there so far means expectations there should be low. Any range would be a very nice bonus. Certainly possible, but for instance, definitely not at all optimistic it would ever be good for a PF. Maybe decent for a C though.

                  So yeah, a 22-year old C with several years of pro experience in Spain, with strengths and weaknesses that have been scouted for years, and a physical profile that plants him firmly as a "big" is pretty different from an 18-year old (19 on Sunday!) kid with a physical profile that has no clear position, and again can be 5-position defensively, who most people including actual scouts in the NBA first saw him in summer league.

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                  • white men can't jump wrote: View Post
                    From summer league? He's 22 years old and has always been a defensive C with efficient but limited and raw offence. He's been playing in Spain since 2009, which is better basketball than Summer League.

                    Again, with Bruno it's just that he's so young, with such limited experience, such unique tools opening up so many possibilities. His tools are way freakier than Nogueira. Bruno actually has the potential to be a 5-position player defensively. Not saying it's likely, but it's not out of the realm of possibility. Throw in the fact that he already has good shooting form that gives reason to be optimistic for his 3pt shooting, and he also has the potential with his physical tools to be at least a 3-position player offensively...again just saying it's at least possible.

                    Bebe is at best a 2-position player, and apart from an ability to hedge well, doesn't have a lot of skills that translate well to playing beyond the interior on either end. So even at PF there's probably limitations for when and how much you want to use him in today's NBA. And offensively, while a jumpshot is the easiest thing to keep working on long-term, his lack of development there so far means expectations there should be low. Any range would be a very nice bonus. Certainly possible, but for instance, definitely not at all optimistic it would ever be good for a PF. Maybe decent for a C though.

                    So yeah, a 22-year old C with several years of pro experience in Spain, with strengths and weaknesses that have been scouted for years, and a physical profile that plants him firmly as a "big" is pretty different from an 18-year old (19 on Sunday!) kid with a physical profile that has no clear position, and again can be 5-position defensively, who most people including actual scouts in the NBA first saw him in summer league.
                    You make it seem like we have to pick one. Bebe has a 77" wingspan as well. His extremely agile for his size. I haven't seen a 7 footer hedge screen like him since Bargnabi(which he was really good at). His already a great shot blocker and he can hedge well on screens. Do you know how hard it is to find that combination in a big? He also won Defensive player of the year last season. In the second best league in the world. As you guys have reminded constantly 22 years old is way too soon to say that his a finish product. This kid has Marcus Camby potential


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                    • Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
                      You make it seem like we have to pick one. Bebe has a 77" wingspan as well. His extremely agile for his size. I haven't seen a 7 footer hedge screen like him since Bargnabi(which he was really good at). His already a great shot blocker and he can hedge well on screens. Do you know how hard it is to find that combination in a big? He also won Defensive player of the year last season. In the second best league in the world. As you guys have reminded constantly 22 years old is way too soon to say that his a finish product. This kid has Marcus Camby potential


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                      I was just pointing out that Bebe is a much more known quantity whose role and position are fairly obvious and not likely to change more than slightly.

                      The convo was about freakiness, and difficulty in gauging long term outlook in terms of role/position.

                      I like Bebe, but he really doesn't fit into that type of discussion.

                      *Really, the Raps don't have anyone even close to Bruno's level of intrigue in that respect. Probably the closest is Ross at least defensively, as he's shown flashes of being able to guard any perimeter position.
                      Last edited by white men can't jump; Sat Sep 20, 2014, 01:21 PM.

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                      • white men can't jump wrote: View Post
                        He does, but we already have a better read on what his game is and what his role will be.

                        Bruno has way more intrigue because of he's young, very raw, and has freaky physical tools that open lots of possibilities in terms of roles and even positions he could play.
                        He'll end up somewhere between Marcus Camby and Carlos Rogers
                        "Stop eating your sushi."
                        "I do actually have a pair of Uggs."
                        "I've had three cups of green tea tonight. I'm wired. I'm absolutely wired."
                        - Jack Armstrong

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                          • JimiCliff wrote: View Post
                            He'll end up somewhere between Marcus Camby and Carlos Rogers
                            I think he might turn into a 7 foot Amir at worse.


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                            • rocwell wrote: View Post

                              I have goosebumps.

                              The future is bright.

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                              • Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
                                I think he might turn into a 7 foot Amir at worse.


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                                I think you mean at best.

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