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  • chris wrote: View Post

    if we did trade for beal i would prefer it be for lowry because fred is younger and you could presumably keep that core contending for longer. fred/OG/pascal might still be enough to cover beal's shortcomings on the defensive end, depending who's at center.

    given recent precedent with holiday and harden it would probably take the max allowable (or close to it) draft assets going to washington along with lowry (up to 3 firsts and 4 pick swaps)... would that core be good enough to want to lock in long term with minimal opportunity to restock talent in the draft for 7 years? i am skeptical.
    Jrue was 2 picks and 3 swaps. I don't mind the swaps.. you still get your pick. Is Washington going to be better than Toronto in those years or about the same? It's a gamble but I'd take that. The 2 picks may be a lot but I would do it for someone like Beal. He's only 27. Can bargain with the Wizards if Beal feels uncommitted to the Raptors after 2 years. Harden was fully committed to the Nets. Bucks had Giannis' extension looming over them so panicked. Clippers had Kawhi.

    Lowry and Norm's contracts would have to be used.. but Washington won't want Kyle. So would have to find a 3rd team and try to snatch an asset out of that team to give back to Washington to make the deal work.

    Philly would probably want Beal themselves, but a 3 team trade like this is what I would try and do:

    Toronto=Beal,Scott
    Washington=Norm,Green,Thybulle,Maxey,picks
    Philly=Lowry

    Comment


    • A.I wrote: View Post

      Honestly with Pascal, OG, Beal and Lowry, it wouldn't be bad at all. Kyle is the leader and floor general, Beal is the main scorer, Pascal will do a bit of everything and OG is your 3&D specialist.

      3 of those guys won a championship and have been part of winning seasons for many years.
      You're talking like we're getting Beal for free in which case let's do it! Those wanting Beal are quick to point out his team is awful which hasn't always been the case (he's been around for a while). More importantly what do you think the Raps would look like if they made a trade for Beal? I gather not much different from what the Wiz look like now, but minus picks as well. Beal is no LeBron, Kawhi or a real difference maker in playoffs so you're basically gutting the team of assets for a guy that isn't going to make you any better than DeMar did in the playoffs.

      Comment


      • planetmars wrote: View Post

        Jrue was 2 picks and 3 swaps. I don't mind the swaps.. you still get your pick. Is Washington going to be better than Toronto in those years or about the same? It's a gamble but I'd take that. The 2 picks may be a lot but I would do it for someone like Beal. He's only 27. Can bargain with the Wizards if Beal feels uncommitted to the Raptors after 2 years. Harden was fully committed to the Nets. Bucks had Giannis' extension looming over them so panicked. Clippers had Kawhi.

        Lowry and Norm's contracts would have to be used.. but Washington won't want Kyle. So would have to find a 3rd team and try to snatch an asset out of that team to give back to Washington to make the deal work.

        Philly would probably want Beal themselves, but a 3 team trade like this is what I would try and do:

        Toronto=Beal,Scott
        Washington=Norm,Green,Thybulle,Maxey,picks
        Philly=Lowry
        well my thought was that if jrue was the benchmark and beal is much better and younger than it would presumably cost more than 2 firsts and 3 swaps. if it was just that (plus lowry) i might do it too.

        was also thinking lowry might be somewhat attractive to them as either an expiring or someone they could flip again before the deadline. obviously if they couldn't flip him again i expect they would release him and he would have his choice of suitors for a playoff run. i admittedly don't know their financial situation enough to know if this makes sense

        Comment


        • chris wrote: View Post

          well my thought was that if jrue was the benchmark and beal is much better and younger than it would presumably cost more than 2 firsts and 3 swaps. if it was just that (plus lowry) i might do it too.

          was also thinking lowry might be somewhat attractive to them as either an expiring or someone they could flip again before the deadline. obviously if they couldn't flip him again i expect they would release him and he would have his choice of suitors for a playoff run. i admittedly don't know their financial situation enough to know if this makes sense
          Yeah they could take the expiring contract in Lowry, waive him and have Lowry join any team he wants. We'd then have to probably include multiple cheap prospects like Davis, Flynn, Thomas or maybe Boucher (although not really a prospect).

          Bucks were a bit desperate for Jrue to keep Giannis.. I guess desperation from one team can set the market price for another. 3 picks / 3 swaps is probably the asking price. I'd like to find a pick from someone else instead of giving up a Raptor pick if we can.

          Maybe Norm can fetch a FRP from someone?

          Comment


          • MixxAOR wrote: View Post


            Embiid is not scared of Gasol anymore
            Gasol actually did him dirty with a foul last night. Announcer said it was lebron but it was Marc

            Comment


            • planetmars wrote: View Post

              Yeah they could take the expiring contract in Lowry, waive him and have Lowry join any team he wants. We'd then have to probably include multiple cheap prospects like Davis, Flynn, Thomas or maybe Boucher (although not really a prospect).

              Bucks were a bit desperate for Jrue to keep Giannis.. I guess desperation from one team can set the market price for another. 3 picks / 3 swaps is probably the asking price. I'd like to find a pick from someone else instead of giving up a Raptor pick if we can.

              Maybe Norm can fetch a FRP from someone?
              i dunno, maybe. in any event the asking price would be insanely steep which is why i said i wasn't sure the risk would be worth the reward at the beginning.

              it's all a moot point because the talking heads have decided he is going to the bucks or clippers because they just can't get enough superteams, nevermind the fact that neither have remotely close to enough to trade for him. logistics be damned

              Comment


              • G__Deane wrote: View Post

                Gasol actually did him dirty with a foul last night. Announcer said it was lebron but it was Marc
                i believe they reviewed the call and gave lebron a flagrant. embiid said in his post-game that lebron should have been tossed. i don't think it was marc

                Comment


                • planetmars wrote: View Post

                  Are you thinking Fred for Beal? Fred can't be traded until March 2.. long time away still. I think Beal gets traded before then.
                  CC
                  chris
                  slaw
                  LJ2
                  A.I
                  ​​​​​​​
                  I don't think we have the capital to make a trade for Beal right now.
                  He is only 27 and he is putting up an eyeopening performance offensively this year.
                  Give or take he has at least 4 or 5 years of peak performance in him.
                  Thats going to cost.

                  If Harden was 3 or 4 firsts, a starting SG in Olidipo AND pick swaps for three years after that..
                  Beal must be worth half that . maybe a bit less. ...
                  So would you give up this years first and 2022's first , one of OG or Fred, a pick swap in 2024 and a 2nd for Beal.
                  Thats a whole bunch of future to pair with Kyle and Pascal and either OG or Fred and Norm for one and half years of control.

                  Hard call..
                  Flight risk is high at the end of his deal......Grudgingly .... I say no.
                  Last edited by Demographic Shift; Thu Jan 28, 2021, 04:00 PM.
                  There's no such thing as a 2nd round bust.
                  - TGO

                  Comment


                  • chris wrote: View Post

                    i believe they reviewed the call and gave lebron a flagrant. embiid said in his post-game that lebron should have been tossed. i don't think it was marc
                    I only saw the angle from behind where Marc did indeed contact him in mid air. But this video clearly shows it was lebron who did him dirty, not wanting to get dunked on. Any other player would have been ejected....

                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=auBQU6FGutw

                    Comment


                    • Demographic Shift wrote: View Post
                      CC
                      chris
                      slaw
                      LJ2
                      A.I

                      I don't think we have the capital to make a trade for Beal right now.
                      He is only 27 and he is putting up an eyeopening performance offensively this year.
                      Give or take he has at least 4 or 5 years of peak performance in him.
                      Thats going to cost.

                      If Harden was 3 or 4 firsts, a starting SG in Olidipo AND pick swaps for three years after that..
                      Beal must be worth half that . maybe a bit less. ...
                      So would you give up this years first and 2022's first , one of OG or Fred, a pick swap in 2024 and a 2nd for Beal.
                      Thats a whole bunch of future to pair with Kyle and Pascal and either OG or Fred and Norm for one and half years of control.

                      Hard call..
                      Flight risk is high at the end of his deal......Grudgingly .... I say no.
                      that's where i've landed too, albeit around different parameters of the deal. no matter the parameters it will cost a shitload and he may not stick around after next season (he has a player option for 22-23 he would presumably decline if he were still healthy and putting up numbers)

                      Comment


                      • Demographic Shift wrote: View Post
                        CC
                        chris
                        slaw
                        LJ2
                        A.I

                        I don't think we have the capital to make a trade for Beal right now.
                        He is only 27 and he is putting up an eyeopening performance offensively this year.
                        Give or take he has at least 4 or 5 years of peak performance in him.
                        Thats going to cost.

                        If Harden was 3 or 4 firsts, a starting SG in Olidipo AND pick swaps for three years after that..
                        Beal must be worth half that . maybe a bit less. ...
                        So would you give up this years first and 2022's first , one of OG or Fred, a pick swap in 2024 and a 2nd for Beal.
                        Thats a whole bunch of future to pair with Kyle and Pascal and either OG or Fred and Norm for one and half years of control.

                        Hard call..
                        Flight risk is high at the end of his deal......Grudgingly .... I say no.
                        What about if Beal signs an extension?

                        Comment


                        • G__Deane wrote: View Post

                          I only saw the angle from behind where Marc did indeed contact him in mid air. But this video clearly shows it was lebron who did him dirty, not wanting to get dunked on. Any other player would have been ejected....

                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=auBQU6FGutw
                          yeah i saw that angle and thought it was marc too at first. agree anyone else would have been tossed

                          Comment


                          • Just because Kawhi bailed I'm not sure Beal would.. I would risk all those picks and a player like Fred for him. I'm anti-tank though and you need a star to win. Beal's not a Kawhi/Harden/Davis level talent, but he's good and might attract other stars to play with him.

                            I'd rather trade for a star then try to tank then draft/develop one.

                            So if we don't go after a player like Beal, should we just tank? What's the long term strategy? Eventually wait for a better disgruntled star and trade for him?

                            OG/Siakam/Fred aren't good enough.. and Lowry is a couple of years away from falling off a cliff.

                            Comment


                            • planetmars wrote: View Post
                              Just because Kawhi bailed I'm not sure Beal would.. I would risk all those picks and a player like Fred for him. I'm anti-tank though and you need a star to win. Beal's not a Kawhi/Harden/Davis level talent, but he's good and might attract other stars to play with him.

                              I'd rather trade for a star then try to tank then draft/develop one.

                              So if we don't go after a player like Beal, should we just tank? What's the long term strategy? Eventually wait for a better disgruntled star and trade for him?

                              OG/Siakam/Fred aren't good enough.. and Lowry is a couple of years away from falling off a cliff.
                              i would give up short-term draft assets for beal but i would not give up anything 4 to 7 years out. he's not good enough to bet the farm on, in my opinion.

                              my long term strategy would be the one fans get most fired up about and masai favorite: wait and see.

                              OG/siakam/fred aren't good enough to compete for a title. they are good enough to compete in the second tier of the east. see how they develop. maybe they increase their trade value. maybe they are good enough to attract another piece in FA. maybe we unearth another gem in the draft. maybe some of the young guys already on our roster develop enough to include in a big trade.

                              i wouldn't be making too many franchise-shaking decisions based on a 15-20 game sample size of this very strange season.

                              Comment


                              • planetmars wrote: View Post
                                Just because Kawhi bailed I'm not sure Beal would.. I would risk all those picks and a player like Fred for him. I'm anti-tank though and you need a star to win. Beal's not a Kawhi/Harden/Davis level talent, but he's good and might attract other stars to play with him.

                                I'd rather trade for a star then try to tank then draft/develop one.

                                So if we don't go after a player like Beal, should we just tank? What's the long term strategy? Eventually wait for a better disgruntled star and trade for him?

                                OG/Siakam/Fred aren't good enough.. and Lowry is a couple of years away from falling off a cliff.
                                The reason I'm pro tank is because of this dilemma.
                                We need a big star but we aren't capable of attracting them, and other than Beal there's no other big player out there to potentially go after.

                                Comment

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