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Game #3 Toronto Bay Raptors @ Philadelphia 76ers. 7:00 PM Tampa Bay, Florida. 6:00 PM Pensacola, Florida. SN

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  • MixxAOR wrote: View Post

    I don't know I'm pretty sure a lot of people were saying it's not championship or bust. And people were saying we just have to compete in ECF and playoffs and we would have a chance to resign Kawhi. But in reality not even championship was enough. That's ok I'm grateful for championship. If you are middling team maybe this is the only solution to win a championship ( to trade for disgruntled star.) But getting only one year to do that is fucking tough. But I now think that sustained success and contention should be a goal. I want a team to be year in and year out to have a chance. Like Spurs. Tim Duncan's Spurs. That's why we need a proper rebuild in order to get our franchise player. I don't want to build from middle.
    Nah. That’s revisionist. People were happy taking one big swing and then blowing it up with Demar’s contract off the books. I remember you specifically being okay with a one shot deal. And now the moving target is sustainable dynasty? Lol. C’mon. That’s a ridiculously unattainable bar without unforeseen luck being involved.

    Tim Duncan Spurs is no longer achievable because Spurs culture also involved your top guys taking hometown discounts to help you build out the roster. Presti tried to lowball and lost Harden. And when a low upside, flawed and replaceable player like FVV states publicly that he is “just trying to get paid, man” and then proceeds to shake you down for every penny... those days of HoFers like Manu and Parker taking less money for the greater good are over. Resigning FVV at that price ends up being more about asset management to flip later, than sound team building.

    The most likely way a sustainable dynasty is achievable here is if we can hit on a couple of superstars in back to back drafts like Tmac & VC all over again. But even then you’d probably be looking at 5 years max of dynastic play, not 15-20 like Timmy D. That’s completely unrealistic.

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    • golden wrote: View Post

      Nah. That’s revisionist. People were happy taking one big swing and then blowing it up with Demar’s contract off the books. I remember you specifically being okay with a one shot deal. And now the moving target is sustainable dynasty? Lol. C’mon. That’s a ridiculously unattainable bar without unforeseen luck being involved.

      Tim Duncan Spurs is no longer achievable because Spurs culture also involved your top guys taking hometown discounts to help you build out the roster. Presti tried to lowball and lost Harden. And when a low upside, flawed and replaceable player like FVV states publicly that he is “just trying to get paid, man” and then proceeds to shake you down for every penny... those days of HoFers like Manu and Parker taking less money for the greater good are over. Resigning FVV at that price ends up being more about asset management to flip later, than sound team building.

      The most likely way a sustainable dynasty is achievable here is if we can hit on a couple of superstars in back to back drafts like Tmac & VC all over again. But even then you’d probably be looking at 5 years max of dynastic play, not 15-20 like Timmy D. That’s completely unrealistic.
      Hard to admit but I was wrong. (plus I was pretty done with Derozan at the time) We're lucky that we won a championship. (healthy KD changes things) Because Kawhi would've left regardless and we would have nothing to show for it.

      trades like Kawhi happen once in a while too plus result in championship? Probably would not happen again

      It worked for us I'm not arguing that. But to continue pursue this strategy over and over again? Nah
      Last edited by MixxAOR; Thu Dec 31, 2020, 06:58 PM.
      Only one thing matters: We The Champs.

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      • MixxAOR wrote: View Post

        I don't know I'm pretty sure a lot of people were saying it's not championship or bust. And people were saying we just have to compete in ECF and playoffs and we would have a chance to resign Kawhi. But in reality not even championship was enough. That's ok I'm grateful for championship. If you are middling team maybe this is the only solution to win a championship ( to trade for disgruntled star.) But getting only one year to do that is fucking tough. But I now think that sustained success and contention should be a goal. I want a team to be year in and year out to have a chance. Like Spurs. Tim Duncan's Spurs. That's why we need a proper rebuild in order to get our franchise player. I don't want to build from middle.
        As I said before, I think Kawhi was just a special case. Most stars would be likely re-sign after winning a championship, especially considering we kept the same team minus Kawhi and Danny. We likely would have battled the Lakers in the Finals if they stayed, but Kawhi wanted to go home no matter what.
        Last edited by A.I; Thu Dec 31, 2020, 06:54 PM.

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        • A.I wrote: View Post

          Just wait until fans go back to fire Masai or start fire Nurse talks...
          There'as already enough of them criticizing Nurse

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          • A.I wrote: View Post

            As I said before, I think Kawhi was just a special case. Most stars would be likely re-sign after winning a championship, especially considering we kept the same team minus Kawhi and Danny. We likely would have battled the Lakers in the Finals if they stayed, but Kawhi wanted to go home no matter what.
            Sadly, I don't think Kawhi is a special case. Durant left Golden State after 2 chips and 3 straight finals. Lebron left his freakin' home after 1 chip and 4 straight finals. Kyrie left a guaranteed finals team a year before him.

            This player empowerment generation of superstars is just different. They're not motivated just by winning chips. After they win a few, it's almost like they're satisfied. They want more than that. They want to spend quality time with family. They want their personal brands promoted in the biggest markets. They want nice weather. They want load management. They want to be respected for their humanitarian work. And after all that, they want to team up with other superstars for the easiest path to a championship and still want the individual awards and accolades. They are willing to jump around every few years to find that perfect place... for them.

            That's one reason why a long-term sustainable dynasty is almost impossible to achieve non-marquee NBA cities. Kawhi said it himself... he felt like he did his job (i.e. jail term in Toronto) by winning the championship for Toronto and that he should be granted his wish to go: where he wants. This is the current mindset of the American born players, for sure. Maybe Euro stars like Giannis and Luka are wired different and are culturally more loyal and you can build around them. If the Raptors want more championships, we may have no choice but to think short-term and be opportunistic.

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            • golden wrote: View Post

              Sadly, I don't think Kawhi is a special case. Durant left Golden State after 2 chips and 3 straight finals. Lebron left his freakin' home after 1 chip and 4 straight finals. Kyrie left a guaranteed finals team a year before him.

              This player empowerment generation of superstars is just different. They're not motivated just by winning chips. After they win a few, it's almost like they're satisfied. They want more than that. They want to spend quality time with family. They want their personal brands promoted in the biggest markets. They want nice weather. They want load management. They want to be respected for their humanitarian work. And after all that, they want to team up with other superstars for the easiest path to a championship and still want the individual awards and accolades. They are willing to jump around every few years to find that perfect place... for them.

              That's one reason why a long-term sustainable dynasty is almost impossible to achieve non-marquee NBA cities. Kawhi said it himself... he felt like he did his job (i.e. jail term in Toronto) by winning the championship for Toronto and that he should be granted his wish to go: where he wants. This is the current mindset of the American born players, for sure. Maybe Euro stars like Giannis and Luka are wired different and are culturally more loyal and you can build around them. If the Raptors want more championships, we may have no choice but to think short-term and be opportunistic.
              Well difference is they all stayed on their teams for multiple years. Kawhi didn't give the Raptors a chance. We knew he wanted to go to LA before he got to Toronto, but many of us hoped winning would change his mind, it didn't.

              I do however think European players are different. Mainly because they don't have a home in the states, so either way they are coming to a foreign country whether its Canada or the US.

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              • Ya to the euros. Also if the star is american and young they want to be like in the movies with bling and the big pool and palm trees and invite their posse over for some blunts. Best candidates are family men. Toronto is a good place to bring up a family. Like Lowry. Sure they can get a place with a gate in the states but its not the same. Remember what casey said too in his farewell note.

                The guys who liked it here and wanted to stay dont get much attention. Lowry, DD, Casey, Ross, biz, jv and many more.

                and its not always greener. Bosh lucked out but he got robbed soon after arriving in fla. Vc didnt win. Tmac didnt win and they both admit they cudda if they stayed.

                nash chose la over toronto because his family was there and he had no choice about it. But overall theres not that many instances to say its a problem here

                just need some new young guys on an big upward curve, solid players, good finishes and almost there then shell out for an all star fa that will get us over the top

                Toronto fkn rocks chips or not so who cares

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                • I cant find the everything lowry thread but i guess we can trade him at deadline for a pick then just go after him in the summer again. Can we tell him that or is that tampering? Maybe hed be pissed about the whole idea. Dunno

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                  • Yuri Gagarin wrote: View Post
                    I cant find the everything lowry thread but i guess we can trade him at deadline for a pick then just go after him in the summer again. Can we tell him that or is that tampering? Maybe hed be pissed about the whole idea. Dunno
                    yeah that'll be an investigation for sure
                    Only one thing matters: We The Champs.

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                    • Yuri Gagarin wrote: View Post
                      I cant find the everything lowry thread but i guess we can trade him at deadline for a pick then just go after him in the summer again. Can we tell him that or is that tampering? Maybe hed be pissed about the whole idea. Dunno
                      Unless there's a rule against actually resigning a player you just traded (there might be), a formal (wink wink) agreement to bring a player back as a FA definitely is. If Lowry wanted to re-sign, you'd think he's be all for it as he gets a shot at a ring and betters the team he wants to re-sign with. But I've never once seen it happen with a star player iirc...think there might be a rule against it.

                      Regardless, I really think Lowry is leaving at the end of the year if this team repeats last season's results

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