Game #3 Toronto Bay Raptors @ Philadelphia 76ers. 7:00 PM Tampa Bay, Florida. 6:00 PM Pensacola, Florida. SN

[Kagemusha]

I won't compare the Raptors with 76ers in terms of drafting prowess and player development.
That being said, I'm really curious and I badly want to witness how we would pick in the top 3 or top 5 and how we'd develop that player.

[G__Deane]

After reading through this whole thoughtful but at times frustrating thread, thank you for the laugh your pluralization skills gave me. Honestly.

It's skillses

[golden]

I'm not a fan of tanking.. I think with player empowerment it's too difficult to get great unless you can draft a super star that also wants to stay. That's rare. I'd rather not be a farm system for other teams out there.

I think being a "treadmill" team is the right approach. And then take another swing when we get that chance. Harden is available now.. but wouldn't surprise me if guys like Steph, Booker or KAT were going to be available as well as early as next summer.

I'm still pro-win, and I hope we can add on to what we have, and not lose Lowry while doing it. I still think we can trade OG/Fred/Pascal as nobody is untouchable. It's just that I prefer trying to win than lose.

This team is flawed for sure. Although the 0-3 start is not a reflection of their talent. The drop down from Gasol to Baynes is noticeable, especially when Lowry is on the bench and Fred or Pascal are out there trying to create a play. But I think we still are closer to a 50 win team than a 20-30 win team.

Treadmill is valid strategy if you can develop a lot of cheap depth, like Miami. If you can develop at get at least one all-star, you package him in a trade for the legit superstar and have rotation guys waiting to fill the void.

One problem with using that strategy here is that Nurse doesn’t trust his depth pieces, like Spoelstra.

Nuggets are also pretty good at developing depth and they’re in a great position for trades, if they choose.

[DogeLover1234]

Treadmill is valid strategy if you can develop a lot of cheap depth, like Miami. If you can develop at get at least one all-star, you package him in a trade for the legit superstar and have rotation guys waiting to fill the void.

One problem with using that strategy here is that Nurse doesn’t trust his depth pieces, like Spoelstra.

Nuggets are also pretty good at developing depth and they’re in a great position for trades, if they choose.

I think when you see how often the best player in a draft class (or top 3) comes after pick 10, treadmill doesnt seem too bad tbh. As far as I can tell unless there is a true cant miss talent, the rest are all situation dependent. Make the situation and eventually the talent follows is where I've landed. Even if it doesn't work out with Siakam, Fred, and OG I'm not concerned as long as the foundation is there. Give up some talent for extra picks at some point, but not if it ruins your culture, its too hard to build back up.

[G__Deane]

Game day!>!>!>!>!>!

[iblastoff]

I gotta disagree and think that makes for an awful championship formula. Develop guys for years then move them for a mercenary on a one year with the hope of hitting the jackpot? Even the most loyal fan has got to admit that was a hail Mary.

We moved DeRozan, Poeltl, JV, Delon, the 2019 1st round pick and a 2024 second round pick to put that championship team together. Well worth it, but not a formula you want to use.

Kawhi leaving had Masai turning to Giannis as plan B and we'll that not gonna happen. We are now at a point where we can't contend because any trade would see too much outgoing. Unless Masai can pull off a miracle in free agency we're set back until we can build up assets again. That was always going to be the price we paid for that championship run.

at what point was this team where they could contend without kawhi? literally never. thats hardly a set back.

[MixxAOR]

at what point was this team where they could contend without kawhi? literally never. thats hardly a set back.

That's not his point. Masai didn't trade for Kawhi knowing that he would leave. Masai intended to resign him. It ended up being championship or bust. That's high risk and not a repeatable strategy.

[S.R.]

Ugh I'm just not ready for tank/treadmill debates again. Honestly we had years of that and just had a 2 year break and I guess now it's over?

[G__Deane]

Ugh I'm just not ready for tank/treadmill debates again. Honestly we had years of that and just had a 2 year break and I guess now it's over?

There shouldn't be a 5 or 10 year grace period just because you won a Chip. That's not how Championship teams ever think.

[MixxAOR]

Ugh I'm just not ready for tank/treadmill debates again. Honestly we had years of that and just had a 2 year break and I guess now it's over?

Why even argue? It is what it is. It's up to the team to perform and management to make decision. It's not like we can sway their mind

[A.I]

Ugh I'm just not ready for tank/treadmill debates again. Honestly we had years of that and just had a 2 year break and I guess now it's over?

Just wait until fans go back to fire Masai or start fire Nurse talks...

[A.I]

There shouldn't be a 5 or 10 year grace period just because you won a Chip. That's not how Championship teams ever think.

You also don't rush into making another championship team. Nets tried that with Pierce and KG and they gutted their future until recently.

[golden]

That's not his point. Masai didn't trade for Kawhi knowing that he would leave. Masai intended to resign him. It ended up being championship or bust. That's high risk and not a repeatable strategy.

I’m confused. I thought everybody around here was all for championship or bust? Pretty sure we could dig up some of your old posts saying you would be okay being the Craptors again if we got a shot at a chip. We were all fed up of being fool’s gold and getting Lebronto’ed, right?

I clearly remember the Kawhi trade being hailed as brilliant on this board because even if it failed, then it would accelerate the rebuild, with DeMar off the books. Guess what? That rebuilding date is here AND we also have a shiny gold ball in the bank. What has changed is that our core was shockingly good last year after Kawhi left, which opened up the possibility of plugging in Giannis and getting back to legit contention in 2021. Swing and a miss there, because COVID revenue loss scared all the top players into grabbing every penny this year. Other than overpaying Fred, OG and Pascal... if you want to fault Masai for anything this off-season it’s basically just one mistake: not retaining Serge as a valuable trade asset which could be useful at the trade deadline this year.

The reality is that there are no long term repeatable strategies these days. You draft a generational talent (i.e. needle in a haystack) and he can leave, if you’re an unattractive market like us. You trade for a superstar and he continually signs 1+1 contracts to give him an out. Top 5 FAs aren’t coming here, so that isn’t an option.

[MixxAOR]

I’m confused. I thought everybody around here was all for championship or bust? Pretty sure we could dig up some of your old posts saying you would be okay being the Craptors again if we got a shot at a chip. We were all fed up of being fool’s gold and getting Lebronto’ed, right?

I clearly remember the Kawhi trade being hailed as brilliant on this board because even if it failed, then it would accelerate the rebuild, with DeMar off the books. Guess what? That rebuilding date is here AND we also have a shiny gold ball in the bank. What has changed is that our core was shockingly good last year after Kawhi left, which opened up the possibility of plugging in Giannis and getting back to legit contention in 2021. Swing and a miss there, because COVID revenue loss scared all the top players into grabbing every penny this year. Other than overpaying Fred, OG and Pascal... if you want to fault Masai for anything this off-season it’s basically just one mistake: not retaining Serge as a valuable trade asset which could be useful at the trade deadline this year.

The reality is that there are no long term repeatable strategies these days. You draft a generational talent (i.e. needle in a haystack) and he can leave, if you’re an unattractive market like us. You trade for a superstar and he continually signs 1+1 contracts to give him an out. Top 5 FAs aren’t coming here, so that isn’t an option.

I don't know I'm pretty sure a lot of people were saying it's not championship or bust. And people were saying we just have to compete in ECF and playoffs and we would have a chance to resign Kawhi. But in reality not even championship was enough. That's ok I'm grateful for championship. If you are middling team maybe this is the only solution to win a championship ( to trade for disgruntled star.) But getting only one year to do that is fucking tough. But I now think that sustained success and contention should be a goal. I want a team to be year in and year out to have a chance. Like Spurs. Tim Duncan's Spurs. That's why we need a proper rebuild in order to get our franchise player. I don't want to build from middle.

[iblastoff]

That's not his point. Masai didn't trade for Kawhi knowing that he would leave. Masai intended to resign him. It ended up being championship or bust. That's high risk and not a repeatable strategy.

so? both outcomes still yielded a championship. obviously the intent was to re-sign kawhi. it only became 'high risk' because kawhi chose to leave. what exactly was the risk in trading away a non-superstar all-star that people were clamoring to get rid of in order to reset the team eventually anyway?

and what is a 'repeatable strategy' for teams that aren't FA destinations? this team went as far as they could go with the talent they could get via 'normal' means. even masai knows that and why he did it in the first place.