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Game #3 Toronto Bay Raptors @ Philadelphia 76ers. 7:00 PM Tampa Bay, Florida. 6:00 PM Pensacola, Florida. SN

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  • G__Deane
    replied
    Yuri Gagarin wrote: View Post
    I cant find the everything lowry thread but i guess we can trade him at deadline for a pick then just go after him in the summer again. Can we tell him that or is that tampering? Maybe hed be pissed about the whole idea. Dunno
    Unless there's a rule against actually resigning a player you just traded (there might be), a formal (wink wink) agreement to bring a player back as a FA definitely is. If Lowry wanted to re-sign, you'd think he's be all for it as he gets a shot at a ring and betters the team he wants to re-sign with. But I've never once seen it happen with a star player iirc...think there might be a rule against it.

    Regardless, I really think Lowry is leaving at the end of the year if this team repeats last season's results

    Leave a comment:


  • MixxAOR
    replied
    Yuri Gagarin wrote: View Post
    I cant find the everything lowry thread but i guess we can trade him at deadline for a pick then just go after him in the summer again. Can we tell him that or is that tampering? Maybe hed be pissed about the whole idea. Dunno
    yeah that'll be an investigation for sure

    Leave a comment:


  • Yuri Gagarin
    replied
    I cant find the everything lowry thread but i guess we can trade him at deadline for a pick then just go after him in the summer again. Can we tell him that or is that tampering? Maybe hed be pissed about the whole idea. Dunno

    Leave a comment:


  • Yuri Gagarin
    replied
    Ya to the euros. Also if the star is american and young they want to be like in the movies with bling and the big pool and palm trees and invite their posse over for some blunts. Best candidates are family men. Toronto is a good place to bring up a family. Like Lowry. Sure they can get a place with a gate in the states but its not the same. Remember what casey said too in his farewell note.

    The guys who liked it here and wanted to stay dont get much attention. Lowry, DD, Casey, Ross, biz, jv and many more.

    and its not always greener. Bosh lucked out but he got robbed soon after arriving in fla. Vc didnt win. Tmac didnt win and they both admit they cudda if they stayed.

    nash chose la over toronto because his family was there and he had no choice about it. But overall theres not that many instances to say its a problem here

    just need some new young guys on an big upward curve, solid players, good finishes and almost there then shell out for an all star fa that will get us over the top

    Toronto fkn rocks chips or not so who cares

    Leave a comment:


  • A.I
    replied
    golden wrote: View Post

    Sadly, I don't think Kawhi is a special case. Durant left Golden State after 2 chips and 3 straight finals. Lebron left his freakin' home after 1 chip and 4 straight finals. Kyrie left a guaranteed finals team a year before him.

    This player empowerment generation of superstars is just different. They're not motivated just by winning chips. After they win a few, it's almost like they're satisfied. They want more than that. They want to spend quality time with family. They want their personal brands promoted in the biggest markets. They want nice weather. They want load management. They want to be respected for their humanitarian work. And after all that, they want to team up with other superstars for the easiest path to a championship and still want the individual awards and accolades. They are willing to jump around every few years to find that perfect place... for them.

    That's one reason why a long-term sustainable dynasty is almost impossible to achieve non-marquee NBA cities. Kawhi said it himself... he felt like he did his job (i.e. jail term in Toronto) by winning the championship for Toronto and that he should be granted his wish to go: where he wants. This is the current mindset of the American born players, for sure. Maybe Euro stars like Giannis and Luka are wired different and are culturally more loyal and you can build around them. If the Raptors want more championships, we may have no choice but to think short-term and be opportunistic.
    Well difference is they all stayed on their teams for multiple years. Kawhi didn't give the Raptors a chance. We knew he wanted to go to LA before he got to Toronto, but many of us hoped winning would change his mind, it didn't.

    I do however think European players are different. Mainly because they don't have a home in the states, so either way they are coming to a foreign country whether its Canada or the US.

    Leave a comment:


  • golden
    replied
    A.I wrote: View Post

    As I said before, I think Kawhi was just a special case. Most stars would be likely re-sign after winning a championship, especially considering we kept the same team minus Kawhi and Danny. We likely would have battled the Lakers in the Finals if they stayed, but Kawhi wanted to go home no matter what.
    Sadly, I don't think Kawhi is a special case. Durant left Golden State after 2 chips and 3 straight finals. Lebron left his freakin' home after 1 chip and 4 straight finals. Kyrie left a guaranteed finals team a year before him.

    This player empowerment generation of superstars is just different. They're not motivated just by winning chips. After they win a few, it's almost like they're satisfied. They want more than that. They want to spend quality time with family. They want their personal brands promoted in the biggest markets. They want nice weather. They want load management. They want to be respected for their humanitarian work. And after all that, they want to team up with other superstars for the easiest path to a championship and still want the individual awards and accolades. They are willing to jump around every few years to find that perfect place... for them.

    That's one reason why a long-term sustainable dynasty is almost impossible to achieve non-marquee NBA cities. Kawhi said it himself... he felt like he did his job (i.e. jail term in Toronto) by winning the championship for Toronto and that he should be granted his wish to go: where he wants. This is the current mindset of the American born players, for sure. Maybe Euro stars like Giannis and Luka are wired different and are culturally more loyal and you can build around them. If the Raptors want more championships, we may have no choice but to think short-term and be opportunistic.

    Leave a comment:


  • G__Deane
    replied
    A.I wrote: View Post

    Just wait until fans go back to fire Masai or start fire Nurse talks...
    There'as already enough of them criticizing Nurse

    Leave a comment:


  • A.I
    replied
    MixxAOR wrote: View Post

    I don't know I'm pretty sure a lot of people were saying it's not championship or bust. And people were saying we just have to compete in ECF and playoffs and we would have a chance to resign Kawhi. But in reality not even championship was enough. That's ok I'm grateful for championship. If you are middling team maybe this is the only solution to win a championship ( to trade for disgruntled star.) But getting only one year to do that is fucking tough. But I now think that sustained success and contention should be a goal. I want a team to be year in and year out to have a chance. Like Spurs. Tim Duncan's Spurs. That's why we need a proper rebuild in order to get our franchise player. I don't want to build from middle.
    As I said before, I think Kawhi was just a special case. Most stars would be likely re-sign after winning a championship, especially considering we kept the same team minus Kawhi and Danny. We likely would have battled the Lakers in the Finals if they stayed, but Kawhi wanted to go home no matter what.
    Last edited by A.I; Thu Dec 31, 2020, 06:54 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • MixxAOR
    replied
    golden wrote: View Post

    Nah. That’s revisionist. People were happy taking one big swing and then blowing it up with Demar’s contract off the books. I remember you specifically being okay with a one shot deal. And now the moving target is sustainable dynasty? Lol. C’mon. That’s a ridiculously unattainable bar without unforeseen luck being involved.

    Tim Duncan Spurs is no longer achievable because Spurs culture also involved your top guys taking hometown discounts to help you build out the roster. Presti tried to lowball and lost Harden. And when a low upside, flawed and replaceable player like FVV states publicly that he is “just trying to get paid, man” and then proceeds to shake you down for every penny... those days of HoFers like Manu and Parker taking less money for the greater good are over. Resigning FVV at that price ends up being more about asset management to flip later, than sound team building.

    The most likely way a sustainable dynasty is achievable here is if we can hit on a couple of superstars in back to back drafts like Tmac & VC all over again. But even then you’d probably be looking at 5 years max of dynastic play, not 15-20 like Timmy D. That’s completely unrealistic.
    Hard to admit but I was wrong. (plus I was pretty done with Derozan at the time) We're lucky that we won a championship. (healthy KD changes things) Because Kawhi would've left regardless and we would have nothing to show for it.

    trades like Kawhi happen once in a while too plus result in championship? Probably would not happen again

    It worked for us I'm not arguing that. But to continue pursue this strategy over and over again? Nah
    Last edited by MixxAOR; Thu Dec 31, 2020, 06:58 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • golden
    replied
    MixxAOR wrote: View Post

    I don't know I'm pretty sure a lot of people were saying it's not championship or bust. And people were saying we just have to compete in ECF and playoffs and we would have a chance to resign Kawhi. But in reality not even championship was enough. That's ok I'm grateful for championship. If you are middling team maybe this is the only solution to win a championship ( to trade for disgruntled star.) But getting only one year to do that is fucking tough. But I now think that sustained success and contention should be a goal. I want a team to be year in and year out to have a chance. Like Spurs. Tim Duncan's Spurs. That's why we need a proper rebuild in order to get our franchise player. I don't want to build from middle.
    Nah. That’s revisionist. People were happy taking one big swing and then blowing it up with Demar’s contract off the books. I remember you specifically being okay with a one shot deal. And now the moving target is sustainable dynasty? Lol. C’mon. That’s a ridiculously unattainable bar without unforeseen luck being involved.

    Tim Duncan Spurs is no longer achievable because Spurs culture also involved your top guys taking hometown discounts to help you build out the roster. Presti tried to lowball and lost Harden. And when a low upside, flawed and replaceable player like FVV states publicly that he is “just trying to get paid, man” and then proceeds to shake you down for every penny... those days of HoFers like Manu and Parker taking less money for the greater good are over. Resigning FVV at that price ends up being more about asset management to flip later, than sound team building.

    The most likely way a sustainable dynasty is achievable here is if we can hit on a couple of superstars in back to back drafts like Tmac & VC all over again. But even then you’d probably be looking at 5 years max of dynastic play, not 15-20 like Timmy D. That’s completely unrealistic.

    Leave a comment:


  • iblastoff
    replied
    MixxAOR wrote: View Post

    That's not his point. Masai didn't trade for Kawhi knowing that he would leave. Masai intended to resign him. It ended up being championship or bust. That's high risk and not a repeatable strategy.
    so? both outcomes still yielded a championship. obviously the intent was to re-sign kawhi. it only became 'high risk' because kawhi chose to leave. what exactly was the risk in trading away a non-superstar all-star that people were clamoring to get rid of in order to reset the team eventually anyway?

    and what is a 'repeatable strategy' for teams that aren't FA destinations? this team went as far as they could go with the talent they could get via 'normal' means. even masai knows that and why he did it in the first place.

    Leave a comment:


  • MixxAOR
    replied
    golden wrote: View Post

    I’m confused. I thought everybody around here was all for championship or bust? Pretty sure we could dig up some of your old posts saying you would be okay being the Craptors again if we got a shot at a chip. We were all fed up of being fool’s gold and getting Lebronto’ed, right?

    I clearly remember the Kawhi trade being hailed as brilliant on this board because even if it failed, then it would accelerate the rebuild, with DeMar off the books. Guess what? That rebuilding date is here AND we also have a shiny gold ball in the bank. What has changed is that our core was shockingly good last year after Kawhi left, which opened up the possibility of plugging in Giannis and getting back to legit contention in 2021. Swing and a miss there, because COVID revenue loss scared all the top players into grabbing every penny this year. Other than overpaying Fred, OG and Pascal... if you want to fault Masai for anything this off-season it’s basically just one mistake: not retaining Serge as a valuable trade asset which could be useful at the trade deadline this year.

    The reality is that there are no long term repeatable strategies these days. You draft a generational talent (i.e. needle in a haystack) and he can leave, if you’re an unattractive market like us. You trade for a superstar and he continually signs 1+1 contracts to give him an out. Top 5 FAs aren’t coming here, so that isn’t an option.
    I don't know I'm pretty sure a lot of people were saying it's not championship or bust. And people were saying we just have to compete in ECF and playoffs and we would have a chance to resign Kawhi. But in reality not even championship was enough. That's ok I'm grateful for championship. If you are middling team maybe this is the only solution to win a championship ( to trade for disgruntled star.) But getting only one year to do that is fucking tough. But I now think that sustained success and contention should be a goal. I want a team to be year in and year out to have a chance. Like Spurs. Tim Duncan's Spurs. That's why we need a proper rebuild in order to get our franchise player. I don't want to build from middle.
    Last edited by MixxAOR; Thu Dec 31, 2020, 05:11 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • golden
    replied
    MixxAOR wrote: View Post

    That's not his point. Masai didn't trade for Kawhi knowing that he would leave. Masai intended to resign him. It ended up being championship or bust. That's high risk and not a repeatable strategy.
    I’m confused. I thought everybody around here was all for championship or bust? Pretty sure we could dig up some of your old posts saying you would be okay being the Craptors again if we got a shot at a chip. We were all fed up of being fool’s gold and getting Lebronto’ed, right?

    I clearly remember the Kawhi trade being hailed as brilliant on this board because even if it failed, then it would accelerate the rebuild, with DeMar off the books. Guess what? That rebuilding date is here AND we also have a shiny gold ball in the bank. What has changed is that our core was shockingly good last year after Kawhi left, which opened up the possibility of plugging in Giannis and getting back to legit contention in 2021. Swing and a miss there, because COVID revenue loss scared all the top players into grabbing every penny this year. Other than overpaying Fred, OG and Pascal... if you want to fault Masai for anything this off-season it’s basically just one mistake: not retaining Serge as a valuable trade asset which could be useful at the trade deadline this year.

    The reality is that there are no long term repeatable strategies these days. You draft a generational talent (i.e. needle in a haystack) and he can leave, if you’re an unattractive market like us. You trade for a superstar and he continually signs 1+1 contracts to give him an out. Top 5 FAs aren’t coming here, so that isn’t an option.

    Leave a comment:


  • A.I
    replied
    G__Deane wrote: View Post

    There shouldn't be a 5 or 10 year grace period just because you won a Chip. That's not how Championship teams ever think.
    You also don't rush into making another championship team. Nets tried that with Pierce and KG and they gutted their future until recently.

    Leave a comment:


  • A.I
    replied
    S.R. wrote: View Post
    Ugh I'm just not ready for tank/treadmill debates again. Honestly we had years of that and just had a 2 year break and I guess now it's over?
    Just wait until fans go back to fire Masai or start fire Nurse talks...

    Leave a comment:

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