Game #5 Toronto Bay Raptors @ New Orleans Pelicans . 7:30 PM ET

[DogeLover1234]

Does Lowry stay after this season though? You risk losing him for nothing.

This is the valid concern to me. Hes too much of a competitor to stick around a bad team and soak up praise. That being said he also doesnt seem like a ring chaser and really does like where hes at. Hes changed a lot even since last time he was a free agent. Maybe he leaves, but I think you need to have some confidence you can keep you cornerstones. I think last offseason was bad, with another bad offseason it may look tempting. I think we’ll get it done though.

That being said, what deals are out there? How many teams can trade for a 30 mill guy and are they really givig good draft equity?

Its fair that a higher selection its a higher chance you get your guy - but its not a guarentee. Maybe it just comes down to perspective, middle of the pack isnt a death sentence if your foundation is strong and I believe ours is.

[Fear_the_BC]

the solution is Yuta Watanabe.. raps are undefeated when he plays

[Kagemusha]

Look at this. They're NOT even double teaming him. And Lonzo is what? 6'5? Siakam can't even post up a 6'5 guard. Instead of going up, Siakam decided to pass the ball to Baynes who was in a tough situation, Baynes ended up turning the ball over. Look at Siakam's expression/body language. That's on you dude smh. This guy needs to go.

Also, dude fouled out with 8 mins left in the game. If you look at all his 6 fouls, they were all lazy fouls. He's not just playing like a dummy on offense, he's also playing like a dummy on defense.

Seriously, whatheFUCK is wrong with Siakam?
This guy is so freaking SoFT!!!#$%^

[slaw]

The glut in smalls is easy to fix with our shallow depth at pf just slide OG in pf and have siakam off the bench. We need to re-ignite bench mob. Its what made this team for years now. Siakam could flourish with the bench. Good bench play also puts pressure on the starters to step up.

something like...

lowry 32/ flynn 16
fred 30/ matt 18
norm 24/ TD 24
OG 24/ Siakam 24
Len 20/ Bouch 20/ Baynes 8

Siakam isn’t coming off the bench but I agree that moving OG to the PF spot is his best position. I think about Tobias Harris and how much better he is when he can get those mismatches at the 4.

Short term they just need Siakam to play better. All of the other stuff will sort itself out.

[golden]

Baynes seems not just lost, but also low basketball IQ and robotic. I'm all for swapping him out for Len, but Boucher has been the best C overall.

Siakam though...disaster so far. Put Thomas out there and it's a lot harder double team Siakam, but Nurse isn't budging right now.

Boucher would be a matchup dependent center and his best position is probably PF, playing beside a bulkier C. It would be risky to start him against guys like Embiid and even a physical guy like Steven Adams. You could probably start Len in most lineups and then go to a quick sub with Boucher if the opposing center is too quick.

[Yuri Gagarin]

The glut in smalls is easy to fix with our shallow depth at pf just slide OG in pf and have siakam off the bench. We need to re-ignite bench mob. Its what made this team for years now. Siakam could flourish with the bench. Good bench play also puts pressure on the starters to step up.

something like...

lowry 32/ flynn 16
fred 30/ matt 18
norm 24/ TD 24
OG 24/ Siakam 24
Len 20/ Bouch 20/ Baynes 8

[big boi]

imo that puts you farther away. Outside of the first overall pick, situation is more relevant for picks than draft number. Outside the truly "can't miss" which is generally between 0-2 everyone has some level of talent and its a matter of development. There is definitely a drop off somewhere in the mid first, but the difference 2-15 is mostly hype. Its got to be a real good return to trade Lowry. Does the team culture and toughness stick around without Lowry's leadership and play? Idk, and I don't think you can put that back together overnight.

The more you lose the higher percentage chance you have to draft higher. The higher you draft the higher chance you can pick the player you want, regardless of where scout consensus say they should be picked. In 2012 the raps coveted Damian Lillard who went at 6, but they were unable to move up and picked Terrance Ross at 8. As we know, Masai coveted Giannis in 2013 but couldn't get a high enough pick. At 15th he was available at 16th he wasn't. So of course where you pick matters. And in a deep draft it could make the difference between selecting a star level talent, the type we will struggle to attract in free agency, or drafting a rotation player.

I trust Masai's drafting ability and Masai has a better chance of picking the player he wants with a higher pick than with a lower pick. If we trade Lowry we could have a 2nd pick in the draft perhaps, where Masai can try to add another rotation player.

[The Great One]

Look at this. They're NOT even double teaming him. And Lonzo is what? 6'5? Siakam can't even post up a 6'5 guard. Instead of going up, Siakam decided to pass the ball to Baynes who was in a tough situation, Baynes ended up turning the ball over. Look at Siakam's expression/body language. That's on you dude smh. This guy needs to go.

Also, dude fouled out with 8 mins left in the game. If you look at all his 6 fouls, they were all lazy fouls. He's not just playing like a dummy on offense, he's also playing like a dummy on defense.

[G__Deane]

Nobody's making excuses and nobody has said the current play is okay.

The current team is relatively inexperienced but has talent. In 2 offseasons basically every experienced vet other than Lowry has left this team. Kawhi/Green/Gasol/Ibaka all gone. Half the championship player rotation. Replaced by inexperienced guys in leadership roles for the first time at the NBA level.

It's nice that you're a real fan because you demand they win 70% of their games NOW. The coaching staff has been pretty clear they're developing these guys by putting them in challenging spots - spots they may not be good in now but they all want to be good in in the future. They want Siakam to be able to get iso buckets. They want Fred to be able to run the offence. They want Norm to close games. They want OG to shoot more and score off the bounce. And getting there takes reps. And you take your lumps while putting in those reps.

Exactly zero people in that franchise are satisfied with mediocrity. Ditto for the fans.

This is one of the WORST lines of thinking of the tank debates. "I'm a REAL fan, I DEMAND winning, but go ahead and be a proponent of mediocrity if you see things in any way differently than I do."

Being impatient all you want won't change the fact that developing players and teams takes time. Toddler fandom won't change that.

You're being ridiculous now. Rant on.

[G__Deane]

Agreed, not that bad. But trading Lowry for youth / picks will put us firmly in the lottery in what is apparently a strong draft.

Yes, so I'm in the camp that says (regrettably) that if we suck by the trade deadline and that mean 5-10 seed, we need to monetize Lowry and then bring him back in FA if possible (not sure you're allowed to) or desirable. Personally, I think it would be time to thank him and turn the page.

And no, I don't think Lowry is coming back in FA either. He's made it abundantly clear that he's all in on players getting everything they can and he'll explore that for himself. No way should the Raps over pay for him, and I think that's what he'll want if he can't find a better win-now situation.

[MixxAOR]

imo that puts you farther away. Outside of the first overall pick, situation is more relevant for picks than draft number. Outside the truly "can't miss" which is generally between 0-2 everyone has some level of talent and its a matter of development. There is definitely a drop off somewhere in the mid first, but the difference 2-15 is mostly hype. Its got to be a real good return to trade Lowry. Does the team culture and toughness stick around without Lowry's leadership and play? Idk, and I don't think you can put that back together overnight.

Does Lowry stay after this season though? You risk losing him for nothing.

[DogeLover1234]

Agreed, not that bad. But trading Lowry for youth / picks will put us firmly in the lottery in what is apparently a strong draft.

imo that puts you farther away. Outside of the first overall pick, situation is more relevant for picks than draft number. Outside the truly "can't miss" which is generally between 0-2 everyone has some level of talent and its a matter of development. There is definitely a drop off somewhere in the mid first, but the difference 2-15 is mostly hype. Its got to be a real good return to trade Lowry. Does the team culture and toughness stick around without Lowry's leadership and play? Idk, and I don't think you can put that back together overnight.

[LJ2]

Norm is not the problem. Neither is Lowry, OG, FVV, Len or Boucher (who has been terrific with more minutes ... just as I predicted).



Obviously a micro sample size, but so far it's all on Siakam and Baynes. We are getting destroyed when either of them is on the court. It could be just shuffling deck chairs, but the easiest thing to try would be to start Len over Baynes and see how that goes. We not $30M/year deep invested in Baynes, so I wouldn't worry too much about developing him or hurting his feelings.

Baynes seems not just lost, but also low basketball IQ and robotic. I'm all for swapping him out for Len, but Boucher has been the best C overall.

Siakam though...disaster so far. Put Thomas out there and it's a lot harder double team Siakam, but Nurse isn't budging right now.

[big boi]

Reality check, raps aren't going to be bad enough to get a top 2 or 3 pick. I mean they're not good but they're not THAT bad.
If they somehow were that bad, it's time to trade Lowry for an expiring, young players and picks and go full youth movement

We get the Celtics (3-3) tomorrow or 4-3 after they beat the Pistons today. Then the upstart Suns....

Agreed, not that bad. But trading Lowry for youth / picks will put us firmly in the lottery in what is apparently a strong draft.

[big boi]

I would like see Lowry stay. His leadership
and hustle is contagious. Even if the Raps are in play for a top 5 pick. He’s the kind of veteran you want around to guide the next generation of the team.

If we luck out and get a top 2 or 3 pick this team could be back in the hunt as early as next year.

I think we have the core to be a contender we are just missing that top dog to get us over the top.

The problem is Lowry is so good he will single handedly keep us in games and get us more wins this year and thus less likely to get a top pick.