Game #5 Toronto Bay Raptors @ New Orleans Pelicans . 7:30 PM ET

[G__Deane]

Nobody's making excuses and nobody has said the current play is okay.

OK excuse was a poor choice of words. Justification.
It's still a poor rationale for excusing poor play imo. I don't care if other teams are playing poorly. WE are.

[S.R.]

I actually small hate that line of excuse. "Look other good teams are sucking so it's OK that we are"
No, it's exactly why you want to be playing up to your capabilities to take advantage of other team's poor starts. You KNOW the Bucks will right the ship to a well above average record, not so for the Raptors. The Bucks arguably have the same or better roster than last year, the Raps do not.

There's no silver lining to look for; they're not beating very average teams.

Nobody's making excuses and nobody has said the current play is okay.

The current team is relatively inexperienced but has talent. In 2 offseasons basically every experienced vet other than Lowry has left this team. Kawhi/Green/Gasol/Ibaka all gone. Half the championship player rotation. Replaced by inexperienced guys in leadership roles for the first time at the NBA level.

It's nice that you're a real fan because you demand they win 70% of their games NOW. The coaching staff has been pretty clear they're developing these guys by putting them in challenging spots - spots they may not be good in now but they all want to be good in in the future. They want Siakam to be able to get iso buckets. They want Fred to be able to run the offence. They want Norm to close games. They want OG to shoot more and score off the bounce. And getting there takes reps. And you take your lumps while putting in those reps.

Exactly zero people in that franchise are satisfied with mediocrity. Ditto for the fans.

This is one of the WORST lines of thinking of the tank debates. "I'm a REAL fan, I DEMAND winning, but go ahead and be a proponent of mediocrity if you see things in any way differently than I do."

Being impatient all you want won't change the fact that developing players and teams takes time. Toddler fandom won't change that.

[golden]

Norm was not the problem. He was one of the few guys on the floor that is willing to take a shot.

Not going to pile on Siakam as we already know we'd probably have won all games but the opener if his offense didn't completely fall apart down the stretch.

Pelicans packed the paint forcing us to make shots and Nurse refused to bring when our starters were struggling with their shot. Seems like a pretty simple strategy when facing a big team. Make their bigs come out to the perimeter! Brilliant coach but my GAWD is he stubborn.

Norm is not the problem. Neither is Lowry, OG, FVV, Len or Boucher (who has been terrific with more minutes ... just as I predicted).



Obviously a micro sample size, but so far it's all on Siakam and Baynes. We are getting destroyed when either of them is on the court. It could be just shuffling deck chairs, but the easiest thing to try would be to start Len over Baynes and see how that goes. We not $30M/year deep invested in Baynes, so I wouldn't worry too much about developing him or hurting his feelings.

[The Great One]

Norm was not the problem. He was one of the few guys on the floor that is willing to take a shot.

Not going to pile on Siakam as we already know we'd probably have won all games but the opener if his offense didn't completely fall apart down the stretch.

Pelicans packed the paint forcing us to make shots and Nurse refused to bring when our starters were struggling with their shot. Seems like a pretty simple strategy when facing a big team. Make their bigs come out to the perimeter! Brilliant coach but my GAWD is he stubborn.

But isn't that what's more concerning? other than the first game against the Pelicans, they were in every game. The problem is they don't have a closer. They lost to the Spurs because of a crucial Siakam turnover late in the game, they lost to the Sixers because of a crucial - guess who - Siakam turnover late in the game. Last night their execution down the stretch was brutal. Powell and OG are the last 2 guys I want handling the ball in the clutch.

Their only win was against the Knicks team that missed wide open three after wide open 3. The Knicks finished the game shooting 3/36 from 3. What if they hit half of those?

And again, the Raptors haven't even played a great team yet lol. They'll play Boston tomorrow but tomorrow's a back to back game for the Celtics.

[The Great One]

Reality check, raps aren't going to be bad enough to get a top 2 or 3 pick. I mean they're not good but they're not THAT bad.
If they somehow were that bad, it's time to trade Lowry for an expiring, young players and picks and go full youth movement

We get the Celtics (3-3) tomorrow or 4-3 after they beat the Pistons today. Then the upstart Suns....

Shit. There's a Celtics game today so tomorrow is a 2nd game of a back to back. Hope they get blown out today, need them to play angry tomorrow.

[golden]

This hurts a bit ngl

RR was waaay ahead of the curve on Christian Wood:

https://forums.raptorsrepublic.com/f...istian-wood-pf

[Kagemusha]

I would like see Lowry stay. His leadership
and hustle is contagious. Even if the Raps are in play for a top 5 pick. He’s the kind of veteran you want around to guide the next generation of the team.

If we luck out and get a top 2 or 3 pick this team could be back in the hunt as early as next year.

I think we have the core to be a contender we are just missing that top dog to get us over the top.

Sorry bro, but this core is far from being a contender.
I agree though Lowry is the kind of leader that you want to guide your team.
But many teams see that in Lowry too, which makes him a very good trade piece.
Tbh, I can see a young Lowry in Flynn.

[G__Deane]

I would like see Lowry stay. His leadership
and hustle is contagious. Even if the Raps are in play for a top 5 pick. He’s the kind of veteran you want around to guide the next generation of the team.

If we luck out and get a top 2 or 3 pick this team could be back in the hunt as early as next year.

I think we have the core to be a contender we are just missing that top dog to get us over the top.

Reality check, raps aren't going to be bad enough to get a top 2 or 3 pick. I mean they're not good but they're not THAT bad.
If they somehow were that bad, it's time to trade Lowry for an expiring, young players and picks and go full youth movement

We get the Celtics (3-3) tomorrow or 4-3 after they beat the Pistons today. Then the upstart Suns....

[LJ2]

Norm was not the problem. He was one of the few guys on the floor that is willing to take a shot.

Not going to pile on Siakam as we already know we'd probably have won all games but the opener if his offense didn't completely fall apart down the stretch.

Pelicans packed the paint forcing us to make shots and Nurse refused to bring when our starters were struggling with their shot. Seems like a pretty simple strategy when facing a big team. Make their bigs come out to the perimeter! Brilliant coach but my GAWD is he stubborn.

[G__Deane]

Look, before we freak out too much though, the top 4 in the East right now is Sixers/Magic/Pacers/Cavs. If the playoffs started today, the Bucks/Heat/Raptors would all not be participating.

It's still early and it's still a weird year. Looks like this will be more like the bubble than pre-bubble.

I actually small hate that line of excuse. "Look other good teams are sucking so it's OK that we are"
No, it's exactly why you want to be playing up to your capabilities to take advantage of other team's poor starts. You KNOW the Bucks will right the ship to a well above average record, not so for the Raptors. The Bucks arguably have the same or better roster than last year, the Raps do not.

There's no silver lining to look for; they're not beating very average teams.

[saints91]

I would like see Lowry stay. His leadership
and hustle is contagious. Even if the Raps are in play for a top 5 pick. He’s the kind of veteran you want around to guide the next generation of the team.

If we luck out and get a top 2 or 3 pick this team could be back in the hunt as early as next year.

I think we have the core to be a contender we are just missing that top dog to get us over the top.

[JawsGT]

Yeah norm had made his fair share of head scratching plays to start the season. I've had a lot of hope for norm but some of the poor decision making is getting to me.

I don't expect Lowry to want to stick around if this team doesnt turn it around soon.

The defence has taken a bigger step back than expected, and the offence has been putrid, and last night was pretty good.

Its probably time to start letting thomas, davis and flynn get some regular burn.

[Rudy Bargnani]

Last 2 minutes were not pretty:
-Lowry turnover
-Raps hold ball too long leading to Norm going to hoop and getting blocked.
—OG turnover.
—OG gets fouled going to hoop on an iso.
—Boucher dunks a Fred miss on a put back.

And in my view 2 Norm brain farts with fouling Ingram and then not fouling at the end.

Offence just doesn’t look crisp. If Siakam fouls out it’s reasonable for Norm to be on the floor but he makes some dumb decisions in the clutch.

[Dvdvideo]

1. You guys who all say trade siakam, he sucks etc, are getting a bit trigger happy. He will be fine, given half a chance. He's just not comfortable right now, this could very easily change for lots of reasons.

2. I was screaming at the TV for lowry and Boucher to run pick and roll but got nothing close to it. Sometimes I really don't understand how or why our offensive execution is so bad I swear sometimes there are high school teams that execute better sets.

3. Bains is sucking so bad so far I'm wondering why len or Boucher isn't starting. Maybe he needs more time, but right now he looks passive on offense, slow on defense, and a step late on everything. He looks worse than Jonas on defense plus less of an offensive weapon so far.

4. You can say "you can't blame the refs" but my goodness, in this game, they really did make a lot of horrible calls.

5. I dont understand why the rookie point guard gets zero chance to play.......

6. If we had played a normal game the whole way instead of just jacking 3's the whole first quarter we would have won the game.

[slaw]

I think the Raps will figure it out and go on a nice little streak. But a few players need to play better.. it's not just on Siakam.

I don’t know. A lot of it is on Siakam.

Lowry looks tired already. FVV is playing in form now. OG is coming around. Boucher has been better than expected. Powell is scoring off the bench now.

If Siakam was even playing halfway decent they’d be 3-2 or 4-1. He is a huge drag when he’s out there and they are missing a lot of firepower if he doesn’t produce. Without him they are totally reliant on threes and it’s not working.