Everything Draft 2021

[MixxAOR]

Barnes shot 62.1% from the free throw line. It's not just about how slow his release his. He's just not a good shooter.

OG was even worse in college

[The Great One]

Because Cade has a lot of intangibles going for him that GMs routinely like and doesn't carry a lot of downside risk. He's the consensus #1 for a reason. I don't think he's the best prospect in the draft, but he's definitely the safest to have a long, productive NBA career and GMs worry about their jobs like everybody else.

How do you know he doesn't carry a lot of downside risk?

This is not the LeBron James draft or the Zion draft where there was a consensus #1. This draft reminds me more of the 2017 draft. Most draft experts that year had Fultz going 1st but when you watch Ball play/highlights that year or Tatum or even Fox you just say... err i'm not sure Fultz is better than those guys. That's how I feel about this draft.

After the lottery next week you're going to hear Jalen Green's name more as the potential #1 guy. That's my prediction. To me he has the highest ceiling in this draft, and has the highest star potential. I'm not even sure if Cade is the second best player in this draft. I have Suggs #2.

1. Green
2. Suggs
3. Cade
4. Kuminga
5. Mobley

[The Great One]

I think that having Ben Simmons play as a center would be a bad idea.

Exactly. Just because Barnes is 6'9 doesn't mean he can play C. If you watch him play, he plays more like a guard. Like a point forward like Ben Simmons/Draymond Green.

[LJ2]

Why is it that OG and Pascal can play C for us in small ball lines, but Barnes wouldn't be able to? We're not talking using him as an everyday C. Draymond is used that way is he not?

[MixxAOR]

Why is it that OG and Pascal can play C for us in small ball lines, but Barnes wouldn't be able to? We're not talking using him as an everyday C. Draymond is used that way is he not?

No indication that Barnes can rebound on that level.

[MixxAOR]

Our team doesn't need a Draymond Green though. Pascal and Fred (and Lowry) are our main initiators. We also have Malachi off the bench. We don't need another.. and if he doesn't have the ball in his hands, does he become a liability on offense? We struggle as is, but to go 4-5 on on offense for most possessions will be tough.

If Pascal was a better shooter, and we had a better stretch big.. than I could understand Barnes.. but we don't. He maybe the BPA.. but there is a cost when the fit can be so bad.

I'd rather take a 3&D floor guy like Moody. He has great defensive instincts too if that's what you like about Barnes.

I understand the point but at the same time I'm not drafting a guy only to compliment Pascal and Fred. We gotta look into trying to replace them. I think people one this tank to be one and done. But rebuild will take a while.

[planetmars]

I understand the point but at the same time I'm not drafting a guy only to compliment Pascal and Fred. We gotta look into trying to replace them. I think people one this tank to be one and done. But rebuild will take a while.

I think that's an okay strategy.. but shooting has to be a skill you have coming into the team.. especially if it's a top 7-8 pick in a draft. I understand if a guy is missing something like shooting, but picked later in the draft. Ben Simmons is proving how valuable shooting is right now.

The only time I take a pass at shooting is if they are a center but they need other elite qualities like rebounding and defense to make up for it. That's why I'd be okay with Mobley (he's 4th on my big board).

[planetmars]

OG was even worse in college

OG was a capable 3pt shooter in college (averaged 44.8% in his freshman year, 31.1% in his sophomore year, with 2.8 attempts a game).

Now he was also picked later. If we had a pick in the 15-20 range and Barnes was there, it would be a no brainer. At 7 or 8 it's a tough choice for me. Too many red flags for me.

And if OG never developed his shooting, I don't think anyone would see him as a long term piece, despite his elite defense.

Big ask for Barnes to follow OG's foot steps there. He could do it.. I hope he does for his sakes. But I wouldn't take that gamble.

[LJ2]

No indication that Barnes can rebound on that level.

Neither of those guys are particularly special rebounders and the idea is Barnes would be out there with them.

FVV Trent Jr.
OG
Pascal
Barnes

Toe that is a very Celtics type of line up of very switchable defenders. Can they go head to head with contenders, no. Are they much improved, I think yes.

[LJ2]

Still my dark horse pick for Raps
https://twitter.com/matt_pennie/stat...075577345?s=19

[blackjitsu]

Not the biggest Barnes fan for this roster. Looking at what Ben Simmons is dealing with, and to a much lesser extent someone like Stanley Johnson for the Raps, if you have a bigger, defense first, ball handler with no jump shot you need to have the right roster, and development team to nurture them. I think the Raps might have the right dev team, but if he never develops a shot, how would he fit on this roster? Boucher, Pascal and OG can play the 4, you wouldn't want to slate him there. There are a ton of Center candidates who should be in the second round, so the Raps shouldn't need a small ball 5... Can the Raps be patient with his development if his shooting sucks? His value is at the pivot. His plus points are his assists, ball handling and steals (defense). In that role he needs to have an above average FT rate and at least average 3 pt %. Right now, that's not a thing for him, and the Raps need players who can add to winning now (IMO). I'd like him at OKC, or even Minny.

[LJ2]

Not the biggest Barnes fan for this roster. Looking at what Ben Simmons is dealing with, and to a much lesser extent someone like Stanley Johnson for the Raps, if you have a bigger, defense first, ball handler with no jump shot you need to have the right roster, and development team to nurture them. I think the Raps might have the right dev team, but if he never develops a shot, how would he fit on this roster? Boucher, Pascal and OG can play the 4, you wouldn't want to slate him there. There are a ton of Center candidates who should be in the second round, so the Raps shouldn't need a small ball 5... Can the Raps be patient with his development if his shooting sucks? His value is at the pivot. His plus points are his assists, ball handling and steals (defense). In that role he needs to have an above average FT rate and at least average 3 pt %. Right now, that's not a thing for him, and the Raps need players who can add to winning now (IMO). I'd like him at OKC, or even Minny.

And yet if you could pair Simmons with Siakam, you wouldn't?

Barnes isn't even my top pick for the Raps, so no idea why I'm defending him as a potential Raps pick LOL

[TrueTorontoFan]

OG was even worse in college

yeah lets not compare barnes to OG

[TrueTorontoFan]

How do you know he doesn't carry a lot of downside risk?

This is not the LeBron James draft or the Zion draft where there was a consensus #1. This draft reminds me more of the 2017 draft. Most draft experts that year had Fultz going 1st but when you watch Ball play/highlights that year or Tatum or even Fox you just say... err i'm not sure Fultz is better than those guys. That's how I feel about this draft.

After the lottery next week you're going to hear Jalen Green's name more as the potential #1 guy. That's my prediction. To me he has the highest ceiling in this draft, and has the highest star potential. I'm not even sure if Cade is the second best player in this draft. I have Suggs #2.

1. Green
2. Suggs
3. Cade
4. Kuminga
5. Mobley

I mean we could play the game of how do you know that every single person isn't the next Anthony Benett. You don't but in terms of floor Cade is clearly better than the rest. He has shown a very high level capability to be able to read the game. He will tell guys to move over to get a better passing lane. He has the height advantage and reach advantage over suggs. His teammates sucked so its hard to judge the turn over ratio. VS suggs who was on a crazy team.

You say there isn't a consensus yet every single mock draft has basically said Cade and Mobley are tiered above the rest with Cade half a tier above Mobley, but because of Mobley being tougher to develop and fill out he appears closer to the rest.



Cade is also currently right now better than Green. Body wise he is closer to being NBA-ready to go out of the gate.

Now in terms of the ceiling. I would put Mobley/Green as higher than Cade. Why? Because Cade is a tad too slow and I think the Luka comparisons are a bit overblown. I see him as being a bit passive and I never saw him get that extra ___ you gear.

Green lags behind Cade defensively right now. He has shown good consistent scoring potential and likely won't struggle to score out of the gate right away. If we are for sure trading lowry in a sign and trade for assets I would draft the kid and just accept that offensively you will have to work on his playmaking for a year, but he would present an amazing option and would be the better option out of the 3 wings available in the top 5. Mobley is the person who I think is way too low. He would fit in and could develop in the first year while he fills out. I would say look at his tape again and look at his passing and playmaking from the post. For his size the guy can handle. He does like contact. He defends really well. Think of a mix between Gasol and Bosh. He can pass and that is something that is needed. He can also defend positionally really well. He will need some weight room training but that is MINOR. He would also fit in this team without us having to worry about roster balance issues. Him OG and Siakam as a front court would be INSANE.

[TrueTorontoFan]

Neither of those guys are particularly special rebounders and the idea is Barnes would be out there with them.

FVV Trent Jr.
OG
Pascal
Barnes

Toe that is a very Celtics type of line up of very switchable defenders. Can they go head to head with contenders, no. Are they much improved, I think yes.

The one challenge of having a 6'9 draymond type center as tantalizing as it maybe is this. You need the man to learn how to shoot to maximize his abilities and play on the floor otherwise you are going 5 on 4 every time on offense. You also risk having someone who will get beat and worn down over the course of a season and playoffs. This is why Draymond is always injured. Especially if you are undersized.