Everything Draft 2021

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Page #300 of Everything Draft 2021

Could've perhaps gone ... simpler?

The story gets real interesting now, though.

I feel like this is worth remembering...



Welcome to Toronto, Scottie.

[golden]

Someone eventually needs to put ball in the hoop. But we will see. Hope i'm wrong

Lol. You spent the last 2-3 months telling me defense > offense. This is hilarious. You got what you wanted.

[MixxAOR]

Lol. You spent the last 2-3 months telling me defense > offense. This is hilarious. You got what you wanted.

I didn't say defense with no offense. I said I cant grab a guy who has no defense but with great offense. I wanted balance and not to swing on completely non defensive player like what you wanted. Big difference. I was saying a team needs to be Top 5 in defense AND offense to win and can't have weak link. Show me where I said draft Barnes.

DPOY btw won a championship

[golden]

I didn't say defense with no offense. I said I cant grab a guy who has no defense but with great offense. I wanted balance and not to swing on completely non defensive player like what you wanted. Big difference. I was saying a team needs to be Top 5 in defense AND offense to win and can't have weak link. Show me where I said draft Barnes.

Well, no. We both said similar things, which is to grab a 2-way player as the first priority... I mean that's obvious, duh. I'm not saying you said we should stack our roster with 1-way, defense only players either. And Barnes isn't a zero offense player... c'mon.

Where we differed, is when we started talking about the 7-11 pick range, when you have to make a choice between an great-offense/defensively-challenged vs. great-defense/offensively-challenged player.

My position was (and still is): if the Raptors developmental system is as great as we think we are, then why can't we take a offensive-minded player and teach him defense? That's what happened in the playoffs with the Hawks.

Well, our elite player development system (and especially Nurse) has now put themselves under an intense spotlight the other way. With Barnes... we now need to take a zero offense player (in your words) and him them into what people expect of a top 4 pick (i.e. all-star... at least). Reliable shooting takes at least 2 years, if not more to stabilize. J-Kidd took more than a decade. Spurs have the same belief that they can teach shooting, but that hasn't really worked with DeJounte Murray, Trey Lyles and even DeMar has taken even less 3s since he joined Spurs. Teaching reliable NBA level distance shooting is hit or miss (no pun intended). Earl Watson & Mutombo have their work cut out. We might need to bring Jama and Jerry Stackhouse back. lol.

That said, until further notice....

[LJ2]

Jalen Suggs, is 6'5? He looks a LOT shorter than that and he has a fairly slight frame, so not expecting him to be absorbing a lot of contact at the NBA level. He's a nice player but if there's one guy among the consensus top 4 which might drop, Suggs would be my guess. I'm basing this opinion completely off highlights thought

Have made a lot of poor predictions, but this one from early on came true.

[LJ2]

Here are my top 5 picks for the draft, as per my expert highlight reel analysis.

1. Cunningham
2. Green
3. Barnes
4. Kuminga
5. Mobley

I think Raps pick either Suggs or Bouknight if they pick outside of the top 5. Both guys look smaller than their listed heights though, so will be interesting to see actuals.

Top 2 was all I had correct.

[Puffer]

Why does last night's Raptors picks remind me of the film, "The Gang That Couldn't Shoot Straight." The FO always has to zag when people are expecting them to zig.

As has already been said, their development brain trust is definitely all in on shooting being a teachable skill. Transition scoring has been a big part of the Raptors offense for the last while. With their selections last night, and their existing core (who knows who else they bring in or who they trade) they are going all-in on disruptors, distributors, high energy, high effort, and long court passes.

When you look at their team members through a defense lens, they have a large crew of perimeter defenders with long reach, and the ability to stay in front of their man. Switchable one through five, and with a nose for disrupting passing lanes. It looks like they are passing on this coming season and by the season after will have forced the NBA to alter their offensive schemes because of the Raptor's "Go Go Gadget Arms" approach to D.

[LJ2]

Well, no. We both said similar things, which is to grab a 2-way player as the first priority... I mean that's obvious, duh. I'm not saying you said we should stack our roster with 1-way, defense only players either. And Barnes isn't a zero offense player... c'mon.

Where we differed, is when we started talking about the 7-11 pick range, when you have to make a choice between an great-offense/defensively-challenged vs. great-defense/offensively-challenged player.

My position was (and still is): if the Raptors developmental system is as great as we think we are, then why can't we take a offensive-minded player and teach him defense? That's what happened in the playoffs with the Hawks.

Well, our elite player development system (and especially Nurse) has now put themselves under an intense spotlight the other way. With Barnes... we now need to take a zero offense player (in your words) and him them into what people expect of a top 4 pick (i.e. all-star... at least). Reliable shooting takes at least 2 years, if not more to stabilize. J-Kidd took more than a decade. Spurs have the same belief that they can teach shooting, but that hasn't really worked with DeJounte Murray, Trey Lyles and even DeMar has taken even less 3s since he joined Spurs. Teaching reliable NBA level distance shooting is hit or miss (no pun intended). Earl Watson & Mutombo have their work cut out. We might need to bring Jama and Jerry Stackhouse back. lol.

That said, until further notice....

"if the Raptors developmental system is as great as we think we are, then why can't we take a offensive-minded player and teach him defense?"

Fundamentally, I'm of the opinion that a defensive-minded player is essentially a hard worker with a great motor and toughness because those are the traits required to be a great defender. Teaching them offense is just another task for them to learn. Offensive-minded players without those traits are going to struggle learning to defend at a high level because traits are ingrained in people, not a learnable skill.

[golden]

Have made a lot of poor predictions, but this one from early on came true.

You called it, LJ.

[slaw]

Yeah it looks like most likely we didnt come away with the next Vince Carter or kawhi leonard to lead the way and people had Hopes along those lines when we got #4 so I get the disappointment. But if masai and the brain trust thought Suggs was gonna be special like that, they surely would have taken him. But they didnt so I truly have faith that barnes will be the better player.

Normally I don’t really criticize picks cause I don’t know any of these players but this has a Marvin Williams over Chris Paul type feel to me. Hope I am wrong.

[MixxAOR]

[slaw]

LOL, maybe. Even if this is true, and I am skeptical as to who it benefits to leak this information, teams don't make decisions like this based on a workout. This front office loves Barnes (or at least the decision-makers do) and so they picked him. In hindsight, given the front office's track record and rhetoric Barnes makes perfect sense.

[A.I]

LOL, maybe. Even if this is true, and I am skeptical as to who it benefits to leak this information, teams don't make decisions like this based on a workout. This front office loves Barnes (or at least the decision-makers do) and so they picked him. In hindsight, given the front office's track record and rhetoric Barnes makes perfect sense.

It does play into it. For example if Suggs had a great workout, and Barnes had a poor one, they'd probably re-think their decision about drafting Barnes.

From reports, apparently Bobby and Masai have kept tabs on Barnes since he was in high school, so they know a lot more about what he can do and who he is as a person to make a good decision.

[Ebonhawke]

Think of the positives - the Barnes' selection got basketball people/pundits talking about the Raptors again. Most of the 'day after' discusson by them has been positive

[KeonClark]

Think of the positives - the Barnes' selection got basketball people/pundits talking about the Raptors again. Most of the 'day after' discusson by them has been positive

Only because its Masai and Tolzman. If it was say Sacramento Kings or Charlotte they'd be getting made fun of