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  • TrueTorontoFan wrote: View Post
    I don't know.. a few of his moves were impressive. The drive to the left hand side for a bucket. His passing in the post to an open man when double (or tripled teamed), etc. But his shooting still seems a bit suspect. It was a highlight reel so he'll make his buckets, but he's still a 30% 3pt shooter, and a sub 70% ft shooter. I don't see the unicorn that most people believe he is. He's just a tall, lanky big man.

    Now he could be good.. but I mean elite centers can be picked up anywhere in the draft (Gobert and Jokic were second rounders). He'd really have to be a top tier center in the league for us to pick him in the top 4 (assuming we get that high). It's like GSW passing on Ball for Wiseman. Or Phoenix taking Ayton over Luka. In retrospect both those moves were disasters.

    That video didn't do enough to impress me. But I still think we will take him if we had a top 4 pick.. simply because of the analytics. He's a safe pick. I don't see all-star big man. If we do get him, I'll be rooting for him. But I'd rather have Cade, Green or even Suggs.




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    • I think my next deep dives will be Keon Johnson and then Mobley.

      Moody is over Barnes so far in my rankings.

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      • planetmars wrote: View Post

        I don't know.. a few of his moves were impressive. The drive to the left hand side for a bucket. His passing in the post to an open man when double (or tripled teamed), etc. But his shooting still seems a bit suspect. It was a highlight reel so he'll make his buckets, but he's still a 30% 3pt shooter, and a sub 70% ft shooter. I don't see the unicorn that most people believe he is. He's just a tall, lanky big man.

        Now he could be good.. but I mean elite centers can be picked up anywhere in the draft (Gobert and Jokic were second rounders). He'd really have to be a top tier center in the league for us to pick him in the top 4 (assuming we get that high). It's like GSW passing on Ball for Wiseman. Or Phoenix taking Ayton over Luka. In retrospect both those moves were disasters.

        That video didn't do enough to impress me. But I still think we will take him if we had a top 4 pick.. simply because of the analytics. He's a safe pick. I don't see all-star big man. If we do get him, I'll be rooting for him. But I'd rather have Cade, Green or even Suggs.



        make no mistake... if you get the number one pick you take cade... no questions


        but this kid is better than Wiseman skill set wise in my opinion. His shooting will improve but he needs more reps. Its the mid range game. he moves fairly fluidly.

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        • I'm starting to like Mobley more and more. His ability to block shots from the perimeter is reminiscent of AD. He's got what seems like a great vertical and moves his feet well. He's a pretty good passer from reports which indicates good basketball IQ, but not sure if that includes passing out of the post. If he was a hybrid of AD and Gasol (Memphis), I'd be pretty damn excited to have him.

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          • TrueTorontoFan wrote: View Post

            i agree take bosh 9/10 times...


            I think we can build a squad who can realistically compete and win without having a "KD type of star".
            No the over whelming evidence is that you can be competitive/compete but you're not Finals material, generally not even Conference Finalists without an elite/superstar type. Small market/non FA/superstar destinations just try to be competitive/entertaining because the real goal is turning a profit every year, suck in your share of TV revenue splits and watch your franchise value steadily climb. There's no true "win a chip" goal except by fluke and this is something that the vast majority of fans fail to understand.

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            • G__Deane wrote: View Post

              No the over whelming evidence is that you can be competitive/compete but you're not Finals material, generally not even Conference Finalists without an elite/superstar type. Small market/non FA/superstar destinations just try to be competitive/entertaining because the real goal is turning a profit every year, suck in your share of TV revenue splits and watch your franchise value steadily climb. There's no true "win a chip" goal except by fluke and this is something that the vast majority of fans fail to understand.
              I think a big part of this is in the playoffs the refs massively favor star players and if you don't have one you're gonna get absolutely screwed on calls. Kawhi was a big difference maker for us in that regard, the refs weren't willing to shit all over him like they were with the rest of our team. Remember how comically bad the FT differentials were with us and LeBron's teams every year in the playoffs?

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              • golden wrote: View Post
                If Green isn’t on the board, I’d be okay with drafting Mobley, but he’d probably have the same problem as Birch defending bulky, strong centers. AD, for example, always starts games beside a true center so he doesn’t have to bang on a big body for the whole game, So Mobley would basically be playing as a PF, which I suppose could open up an opportunity to trade Pascal for that alpha closer that we would still need.

                Is there any video of Mobley defending bigger, more powerful centres instead of physically immature kids in the NCAA?
                AD does that out of preference though. It's long been a critique of his that he doesn't want to play the C game at all. I don't think we need to assume that Mobley would be the same.
                twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                • golden wrote: View Post
                  If Green isn’t on the board, I’d be okay with drafting Mobley, but he’d probably have the same problem as Birch defending bulky, strong centers. AD, for example, always starts games beside a true center so he doesn’t have to bang on a big body for the whole game, So Mobley would basically be playing as a PF, which I suppose could open up an opportunity to trade Pascal for that alpha closer that we would still need.

                  Is there any video of Mobley defending bigger, more powerful centres instead of physically immature kids in the NCAA?
                  No it's his weakness. Especially in the post.
                  Only one thing matters: We The Champs.

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                  • MixxAOR wrote: View Post

                    No it's his weakness. Especially in the post.
                    yeah I think it will be his

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                    • The board seems to be putting in a lot of effort debating a top 3 pick when there is a greater chance we are picking later than that. Kai Jones is the only other big other than Mobley who seem to be consistently in the top half of most mock drafts. It's looking like if we take what we perceive to be PBA it will be a wing or a combo forward. No one right now is jumping out at me.

                      Question I have is why is Charles Bassey so low? Dude turns 21 in October as a college Junior and is a very good rebounder and shot blocker. Has what seems to be nice mobility and shows potential as a perimeter shooter. After being hurt as a sophomore he played over 30 min a game this year. Cunningham, Mobley and Suggs are all less than 1 year younger than him.
                      Twitter @WJ_FINDLAY

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                      • Wondering if we have the ability to package our 2nd rounders (GSW & Memphis) both will be somewhere in the mid 40s. To get up in the 30s. Dont know if we need to have 3 rookies coming in next year with Flynn, Harris, Gillpsie already here
                        To be the champs you got to beat the champs

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                        • planetmars wrote: View Post
                          Now he could be good.. but I mean elite centers can be picked up anywhere in the draft (Gobert and Jokic were second rounders). He'd really have to be a top tier center in the league for us to pick him in the top 4 (assuming we get that high). It's like GSW passing on Ball for Wiseman. Or Phoenix taking Ayton over Luka. In retrospect both those moves were disasters.
                          1. Ayton has averaged a double-double in every season of his career so far, so while he might not be Luka, he's still a pretty great pick.

                          2. Rudy Gobert was a first-round pick, not a second-rounder.

                          3. At this point "you can get a good center anywhere in the draft" has become such received wisdom that it's honestly kind of suspicious so I went back and took a quick look at every draft of the past ten years to see where the centers went, and only counted the centers who have played more than a hundred NBA games (through 2016) or have played in at least one NBA game within the past two years (2017 onward):

                          2011: Enes Kanter (3rd), Jonas Valanciunas (5th), Bismack Biyombo (7th), Nikola Vucevic (16th)
                          2012: Andre Drummond (9th), Meyers Leonard (11th), Tyler Zeller (17th), Miles Plumlee (26th), Festus Ezeli (30th), Justin Hamilton (45th), Robert Sacre (60th)
                          2013: Alex Len (5th), Nerlens Noel (6th), Steven Adams (12th), Kelly Olynyk (13th), Lucas Nogueira (16th), Gorgui Dieng (21st), Mason Plumlee (22nd), Rudy Gobert (27th), Jeff Withey (39th), Mike Muscala (44th)
                          2014: Joel Embiid (3rd), Jusuf Nurkic (16th), Clint Capela (25th), Nikola Jokic (41st)
                          2015: Karl-Anthony Towns (1st), Jahlil Okafor (3rd), Myles Turner (11th), Willy Hernangomez (35th)
                          2016: Dragan Bender (4th), Jakob Poeltl (9th), Ante Zizic (23rd), Skal Labissiere (28th), Damian Jones (30th)
                          2017: Zach Collins (10th), Justin Patton (16th), Jarrett Allen (22nd), Anzejs Pasecniks (25th), Tony Bradley (28th)
                          2018: Deandre Ayton (1st), Mo Bamba (6th), Wendell Carter Jr. (7th), Robert Williams III (27th), Mitchell Robinson (36th)
                          2019: Jaxson Hayes (8th), Goga Bitadze (18th), Mfiondu Kabengele (27th), Bruno Fernando (34th), Daniel Gafford (38th), Alen Smailagic (39th), Bol Bol (44th)
                          2020: James Wiseman (2nd), Jalen Smith (10th), Isaiah Stewart (16th), Zeke Nnaji (22nd)

                          Overall, I think the idea that you can get a good center anywhere in the draft is deeply suspicious and mostly relies on Nikola Jokic being drafted in the second round. Most centers who get drafted in the second round are placeholders at best: the only second-rounder other than Jokic who hasn't just been a warm body who's seven feet tall of the last ten years is Mitchell Robinson.

                          Most centers who have long NBA careers - IE, good centers - get drafted in the lottery, and those who aren't drafted in the lottery are usually snapped up by the end of the first round.

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                          • bertarapsfan wrote: View Post
                            Wondering if we have the ability to package our 2nd rounders (GSW & Memphis) both will be somewhere in the mid 40s. To get up in the 30s. Dont know if we need to have 3 rookies coming in next year with Flynn, Harris, Gillpsie already here
                            I doubt we use all our picks. I keep thinking we may even try to trade the FRP in a package on draft night.

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                            • magoon wrote: View Post

                              1. Ayton has averaged a double-double in every season of his career so far, so while he might not be Luka, he's still a pretty great pick.

                              2. Rudy Gobert was a first-round pick, not a second-rounder.

                              3. At this point "you can get a good center anywhere in the draft" has become such received wisdom that it's honestly kind of suspicious so I went back and took a quick look at every draft of the past ten years to see where the centers went, and only counted the centers who have played more than a hundred NBA games (through 2016) or have played in at least one NBA game within the past two years (2017 onward):

                              2011: Enes Kanter (3rd), Jonas Valanciunas (5th), Bismack Biyombo (7th), Nikola Vucevic (16th)
                              2012: Andre Drummond (9th), Meyers Leonard (11th), Tyler Zeller (17th), Miles Plumlee (26th), Festus Ezeli (30th), Justin Hamilton (45th), Robert Sacre (60th)
                              2013: Alex Len (5th), Nerlens Noel (6th), Steven Adams (12th), Kelly Olynyk (13th), Lucas Nogueira (16th), Gorgui Dieng (21st), Mason Plumlee (22nd), Rudy Gobert (27th), Jeff Withey (39th), Mike Muscala (44th)
                              2014: Joel Embiid (3rd), Jusuf Nurkic (16th), Clint Capela (25th), Nikola Jokic (41st)
                              2015: Karl-Anthony Towns (1st), Jahlil Okafor (3rd), Myles Turner (11th), Willy Hernangomez (35th)
                              2016: Dragan Bender (4th), Jakob Poeltl (9th), Ante Zizic (23rd), Skal Labissiere (28th), Damian Jones (30th)
                              2017: Zach Collins (10th), Justin Patton (16th), Jarrett Allen (22nd), Anzejs Pasecniks (25th), Tony Bradley (28th)
                              2018: Deandre Ayton (1st), Mo Bamba (6th), Wendell Carter Jr. (7th), Robert Williams III (27th), Mitchell Robinson (36th)
                              2019: Jaxson Hayes (8th), Goga Bitadze (18th), Mfiondu Kabengele (27th), Bruno Fernando (34th), Daniel Gafford (38th), Alen Smailagic (39th), Bol Bol (44th)
                              2020: James Wiseman (2nd), Jalen Smith (10th), Isaiah Stewart (16th), Zeke Nnaji (22nd)

                              Overall, I think the idea that you can get a good center anywhere in the draft is deeply suspicious and mostly relies on Nikola Jokic being drafted in the second round. Most centers who get drafted in the second round are placeholders at best: the only second-rounder other than Jokic who hasn't just been a warm body who's seven feet tall of the last ten years is Mitchell Robinson.

                              Most centers who have long NBA careers - IE, good centers - get drafted in the lottery, and those who aren't drafted in the lottery are usually snapped up by the end of the first round.
                              I don't know about your conclusion there. Seems like you can get a good center later in the draft. You can definitely get busts if you draft centers too early... like any other player. I would also go back about 15-20 years, because you can't really say anything about longevity for recently drafted players, especially centers who often take more time to show an impact.

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                              • golden wrote: View Post

                                I don't know about your conclusion there. Seems like you can get a good center later in the draft. You can definitely get busts if you draft centers too early... like any other player. I would also go back about 15-20 years, because you can't really say anything about longevity for recently drafted players, especially centers who often take more time to show an impact.
                                Facts.

                                Can we talk about how many busts are on that list? Biz, Len, Noel, Okafor, Bender, Poeltl, Bamba, Collins...all drafted in the top 10 lol damn. Meanwhile let's look at the C's drafted in the late 1st round/2nd round: Gobert, Capela, Williams, Robinson, Jokic.

                                On that list, the only franchise changing C that was drafted in the top 10 was Embiid.

                                Kanter, JV, Towns, Ayton etc...these guys are solid/great starters. But are they the kind of players you can build your team around? the answer is no. If you're drafting in the top 4 you better get a franchise changing type of talent.

                                So ONE great C the last 10 years. Does anyone here think Mobley can be as good as Embiid?
                                Mamba Mentality

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