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Everything Draft 2021
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TrueTorontoFan wrote: View Postbut again why giddey over springer?
For example, with Giddey you get a potentially monstrous backcourt of Fred+Giddey, with Giddey seeing over the defense.
With Springer you're still kinda stuck in small-backcourt-ball territory. Solid but unspectacular, just like it was Fred+Kyle.
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LJ2 wrote: View Post
Raises the question, do we want yet another two-way player with this pick or do we want to shoot for a prospect which projects as an elite scoring type? There are maybe two guys in the league that can score and defend at the highest level (LBJ and Kawhi) and one of those guys needs to take large chunks of each season off for rest. PG hasn't proven he can do both in the playoffs so I left him off the list.
All the other superstars like Durrant, Harden, Steph, Dame, Booker, Beal, Luka etc are elite, pure scoring types not known for defence....Durrant maybe, but only at times. Just takes too much energy to be elite on both ends of the floor unless you're a generation type LBJ, Jordan, Kobe.
One of those elite type scoring guys is what we badly need to get to the next level isn't it?
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WJF wrote: View Post
What about guys like Dillon Brooks that excel on D and are decent, offensively? With all our pieces healthy and playing at home can a guy like that not push us back up the ladder of top tier teams?
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Maury wrote: View PostDid a deep dive on Tennessee. I watched a couple full games. Springer is really, really good. He’s the kind of guy that makes his entire team better, constantly making the right plays on and off the ball. Defensively, he’s really sound and will immediately be a plus defender in the NBA. His biggest issue is a lack of offensive polish and development. He doesn’t have a single go to move, and he can’t do much when given the ball at the end of the shot clock. He moves it well but he’s definitely not a finisher, at least not yet. He’s strong and can sometimes get to the rim, he’s a pretty solid finisher and a pretty solid jump shooter. All this being said, he’s only 18 and I think he can already do a portion of what Kyle does for a team, minus some of the KLOE moments. He’s also a very good passer. I’d be very happy if the Raps drafted him, but he won’t be really good for at least 4 years probably. Lots of the problems I have with Springer can probably be explained by the role he seemed to play on Tennessee as a tertiary ball mover on offense. He wasn’t asked to do a lot so when he was handed the ball at the end of a shot clock like hot potato he did his best but wasn’t always ready. One thing that I really love is that he hits the glass on both ends and he gets fouled a lot because of how big and strong he is. He may even continue to grow, given that he is so damn young. The most important thing I noticed was that he was constantly having a positive impact and it felt like he won every minute on the floor just by being out there. Btw, Springer absolutely shut down Tre Mann. Like, completely took him out of the game. Not sure if this is more of an indictment of Mann, but I was really impressed. My comp is Malcolm Brogdon mixed with Kyle. I know that sounds incredible but it’s possible that he never develops as an offensive threat.
Keon, on the other hand, to me has flashes of premier scorer. He’s got a more developed offensive game with a solid dribble pull-up that is essentially unguardable because of the lift he gets, he just misses a lot. His shooting mechanics are pretty solid but need work. He can get to the rim at will and is a better finisher than expected. He’s aggressive offensively (the big difference between him and Ross) and his ultimate approach to the game is one of an alpha, the kind of pedigree this team needs. Defensively he’s as aggressive as he is offensively, and the way he gets after shows to me that he can be a plus defender in the NBA. He’s not as solid Springer but his upside is so high just because of his effort and athletic ability. He also has a playmaking side to him, but it’s mostly a switch he flips. He doesn’t have his head on a swivel and mostly makes a move to either pass or score, not both. He also gets to the line pretty effectively as well. Impact wise, he’s not quite as effective as Springer was for the Voles. My comp would be a shooting guard version of Ja Morant mixed with Terrence Ross.
Overall, I’d be really really happy with either of these guys. I think Springer could be a long term point guard (like next 10 years kind of long term) for a really good team. He played shooting guard in college and he could definitely do that in the NBA, I just liked his playmaking and decision making a lot. The fit next to FVV is probably questionable until he becomes more comfortable as a primary ball handler. Keon is just a whole lot of fun and if everything breaks right for him he could be a huge injection of premier talent that we all want badly. As well, both of these guys have games that should really open up in the NBA. Springer should flourish in the more open game and his decision making and general impact will translate really well. Keon’s athleticism should also benefit from a faster pace and better spaced floor (the Voles often had pretty poor spacing forcing Springer or Keon to drive into a crowd).
So far for me, the first tier goes 1. Mobley 2. Cade. Green and Suggs both have holes in their game that drop them below these two, but I’d still take at least Suggs before anyone else. Green I have a lot of questions about.
Springer and Keon are right at the top of the second tier, ahead of Kuminga. It’s really hard to pick between them right now, but Keon might be able to contribute more as a scorer right away and that’s always fun. I think Springer really has a chance to be an incredible driver of wins though. My pick is Springer just because we’re going to need a Kyle replacement and I’m not sold on FVV despite the advanced stats stuff. The next guy I’m going to look at is Giddey, who I admittedly don’t even know what he looks like or what his position is, so that should be fun.
Mobley is quite impressive. Polished game and great mobility for a footer, he’s in the top 3 for sure.
I’m starting in on Suggs, fuck he’s good! I’ve watched 2 games so far and he might be the best player I’ve watched so far out of Green, Kuminga, Mobley, Keon Johnson, Springer, and Barnes. He reminds me of George Hill; same build, good defence, and a great shooter. He has the right demeanour as well.
I’m also impressed with Ayayi off Gonzaga, I think he could be a good get at the end of the first.
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Haha Tony Allen is not a good comp for Keon. Keon is a good stay in front of your guy defender, I don’t see him as a dominate intimidating defender.
TRoss with a motor and attitude is a good comp. Some people are saying Sprewell, and I can see that a bit, but he has to get stronger and more aggressive.
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saints91 wrote: View PostHaha Tony Allen is not a good comp for Keon. Keon is a good stay in front of your guy defender, I don’t see him as a dominate intimidating defender.
TRoss with a motor and attitude is a good comp. Some people are saying Sprewell, and I can see that a bit, but he has to get stronger and more aggressive.
I have barely started looking at prospects (it's just so far away still), but I'll definitely have Keon on a short list if we end up in 7-9.
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saints91 wrote: View PostHaha Tony Allen is not a good comp for Keon. Keon is a good stay in front of your guy defender, I don’t see him as a dominate intimidating defender.
TRoss with a motor and attitude is a good comp. Some people are saying Sprewell, and I can see that a bit, but he has to get stronger and more aggressive.
Terrence Ross is a long range bomber. That's not Keon's game lol. We already have Ross 2.0 on our team - Gary Trent Jr.
I still think the best comp for Keon is a more athletic version of Sprewell.
Mamba Mentality
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saints91 wrote: View Post
I didn’t come away as impressed with Springer but I did hear the commentators mention that he had 5 games in a row where he had outstanding offensive games. Maybe I just didn’t watch the right 4 games. You are on point with Keon though.
Mobley is quite impressive. Polished game and great mobility for a footer, he’s in the top 3 for sure.
I’m starting in on Suggs, fuck he’s good! I’ve watched 2 games so far and he might be the best player I’ve watched so far out of Green, Kuminga, Mobley, Keon Johnson, Springer, and Barnes. He reminds me of George Hill; same build, good defence, and a great shooter. He has the right demeanour as well.
I’m also impressed with Ayayi off Gonzaga, I think he could be a good get at the end of the first.
Yeah I have Suggs at #2 behind Cade. He's a safe bet, but I think he can be a stud. Hill is a good comp on offense, but Suggs is a much better defender. And he's got the clutch gene. I find that his IQ is off the charts too. His size is the only thing that knocks him down a peg, but I don't think that's too much of a deterrent.
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saints91 wrote: View PostI’m starting in on Suggs, fuck he’s good! I’ve watched 2 games so far and he might be the best player I’ve watched so far out of Green, Kuminga, Mobley, Keon Johnson, Springer, and Barnes. He reminds me of George Hill; same build, good defence, and a great shooter. He has the right demeanour as well.planetmars wrote: View PostYeah I have Suggs at #2 behind Cade. He's a safe bet, but I think he can be a stud. Hill is a good comp on offense, but Suggs is a much better defender. And he's got the clutch gene. I find that his IQ is off the charts too. His size is the only thing that knocks him down a peg, but I don't think that's too much of a deterrent.
he has the best combination of alpha personality and talent from what i've seen. (and i am not a youtube scout so my exposure is limited, but i watch a lot of college ball). all the other members of their starting lineup were older and also future NBA players so he was pretty deferential at times, but he took over every big moment of their season.
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SkywalkerAC wrote: View Post
Size? (for argument's sake)
For example, with Giddey you get a potentially monstrous backcourt of Fred+Giddey, with Giddey seeing over the defense.
With Springer, you're still kinda stuck in the small-backcourt-ball territory. Solid but unspectacular, just like it was Fred+Kyle. Fred being maybe 5'11 Kyle being 6'0.
This is not the "small" Fred and Kyle Sized. He is a good solid height and slated to grow. If he hits 6'6 or 6'7 you are more than happy. I also think he can pass and plays defence. The defence is much better than Giddey. I think Giddey is good but he looks like he will always struggle on Defence especially since his arms are short.
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TrueTorontoFan wrote: View Post
So I will debate this with you. Springer was last measured as being 6'4, which is around norm's height (Norm was 6'3 with a 6'11 wingspan). Springer is ONLY 19 and turned it Feb. I think it is safe to assume the kid still grows even if it's only an inch or two.
This is not the "small" Fred and Kyle Sized. He is a good solid height and slated to grow. If he hits 6'6 or 6'7 you are more than happy. I also think he can pass and plays defence. The defence is much better than Giddey. I think Giddey is good but he looks like he will always struggle on Defence especially since his arms are short.Official Pope of the Raptors sponsored by MLSE.
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RandomGuy wrote: View Post
You normally are done getting taller at that age in my experience. I grew from 5'8 to 6'4 in a matter of 4 months while being 14, it depends of course but the male body matures at around 16 years old.
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chris wrote: View Post
i would still take suggs #1 if we won it, or trade back one spot and pick up another asset. don't care about the positional overlap. he'd be a perfect fit with fred i think and i agree with others that the writing's on the wall with lowry from masai's comments anyways.
he has the best combination of alpha personality and talent from what i've seen. (and i am not a youtube scout so my exposure is limited, but i watch a lot of college ball). all the other members of their starting lineup were older and also future NBA players so he was pretty deferential at times, but he took over every big moment of their season.
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