Game #9 Toronto Raptors vs Golden State Warriors - Jan 10th - 830pm EST

[GOLDBLUM]

If there are no options and we want to go full tank, we could waive Kyle at the deadline and let him sign with whoever he wants and get nothing back. Or we could trade Lowry for role players and waive those pieces. Lowry for Conley + pick might be something the Jazz would look into as an upgrade... and then we waive or flip Conley.

I've heard a lot of birdbrained ideas over the years here, but bravo golden -- this one has got to take the cake.

Let's waive Kyle Lowry.

[Kagemusha]

Gigantic f***ing eye-roll.

You were thinking about tanking throughout most of the 2019 playoffs. Even an obnoxious, broken clock can be right twice a day.

Now's your time to shine, troll. Have at 'er.

Yessir!
I'm thinking big picture here.

- Current team is middling at best
- Lowry is a dead FA walking
- We are not a FA destination, even after a championship
- We need a legit superstar which is too costly
- Team isn't playing at home hence less fan engagement/backlash
- Cade Cunningham !!!
- Mobley
- Jalen Green
- Suggs, Kuminga, etc

[golden]

Look, I think it's a bit funny the same people bemoaning the fact that Ibaka and Gasol were lost so the team could take a swing at Giannis (more or less what happened) - which is now being viewed as a mistake in some corners - propose the solution is to do more of the same and unload more talent to hit the draft? What are the odds that the Raptors are actually bad enough, then add a player good enough, to even replace assets like Lowry + Powell, let alone improve on them? It's a long shot. The asset cost of letting pieces walk for a FA swing then dumping more for a swing at the ping pong balls is huge. You're literally dumping 3/4 of a championship rotation for a couple pipe dreams.

Golden State is no model for a 1 year tank, they managed that because their whole roster was injured for the season. That's like how the Robinson Spurs got Duncan and it's not replicable.

Masai should continue with asset management and looking for trades. The Raptors will be a playoff team, they aren't as bad as their W/L record, by a bunch of different metrics. Their team is mostly developing, inexperienced players who are going to increase in value over time. Masai and co. can also add value with late 1sts and even 2nd rounders. They'll restock the cupboard given time.

There's no quick fix here that doesn't involve unnecessary risk and/or setting the franchise further back.

Not sure about the "losing 3/4 of a championship roster" for nothing narrative. There was no way to get value back for Kawhi other than keeping him for the championship run. Were we supposed to trade him at the 2019 trade deadline? Not exactly a bad decision there.

Danny Green left because Kawhi left and OG easily filled his role. Lakers fans couldn't run Green out of town fast enough.

Gasol looked washed in the bubble and left because he wanted the easiest path to a championship and that wasn't in Toronto. He signed for the minimum.

Ibaka is a strange case. Maybe that was just bad asset management, when by all accounts we could have retained him under the tax on a big balloon payment, like Dan suggested. Was that just a mis-calculation by Masai/Bobby and Serge felt dis-respected? A stretch 5 is a valuable and easily tradeable NBA commodity. Seems like most of the issues relate to mis-managing the center position, but even then it's only half of the position because Boucher has been a revelation, easily replacing Serge. If Baynes was Celtics Baynes, we might not even be having this conversation.

With Lowry, he's an impending free agent, so it really comes down to what he wants to do this year & next year. He's in the driver's seat this off-season. Does he want to be part of a rebuild, or does he want to try to compete for championships in his last productive years? If it's championships, then Toronto isn't the place for him this year... Gasol made that pretty clear.

With Powell, we have a surplus of smallish guards that need development minutes and he's a logical piece to move. Plus, he's playing like shiiite again. Terence Davis is pretty much a plug and play cheaper replacement for Norm. TD needs the assurance of guaranteed minutes to play through mistakes, but Nurse is fiercely loyal to his championship guys. You almost need to ship Norm out of here, so that Nurse has no choice but to develop other non-championship guards.

In this sense, the "championship roster" narrative has almost become somewhat of an albatross around the remaining role players on this team. Those were great times, but Kawhi ain't walkin' through that door anytime soon. The roster is/was built to plug & play a true superstar, and taking a swing at Giannis was the right thing to do.

[The Great One]

Look, I think it's a bit funny the same people bemoaning the fact that Ibaka and Gasol were lost so the team could take a swing at Giannis (more or less what happened) - which is now being viewed as a mistake in some corners - propose the solution is to do more of the same and unload more talent to hit the draft? What are the odds that the Raptors are actually bad enough, then add a player good enough, to even replace assets like Lowry + Powell, let alone improve on them? It's a long shot. The asset cost of letting pieces walk for a FA swing then dumping more for a swing at the ping pong balls is huge. You're literally dumping 3/4 of a championship rotation for a couple pipe dreams.

Golden State is no model for a 1 year tank, they managed that because their whole roster was injured for the season. That's like how the Robinson Spurs got Duncan and it's not replicable.

Masai should continue with asset management and looking for trades. The Raptors will be a playoff team, they aren't as bad as their W/L record, by a bunch of different metrics. Their team is mostly developing, inexperienced players who are going to increase in value over time. Masai and co. can also add value with late 1sts and even 2nd rounders. They'll restock the cupboard given time.

There's no quick fix here that doesn't involve unnecessary risk and/or setting the franchise further back.

As I said before, Raptors need to target young players with upside, kind of like the Butler trade to Wolves. When the NBA announced the Butler trade to Minny I got jumped on here for saying that that was a GREAT trade for Chicago. The "cool" thing to say back then was how Chicago completely shit the bed. But I kept talking about Zach LaVine who has a ton of upside(loved him when he was in Minny). 4 years later LaVine is averaging 28ppg and oh he's only 25. Markkanen btw was also part of that trade.

Wonder who won the trade now?

Those are the kind of trades I want to see the Raptors make. So who's the "LaVine" or the young player that I want to see the Raptors target? CAM REDDISH.

[Rudy Bargnani]

Gigantic f***ing eye-roll.

You were thinking about tanking throughout most of the 2019 playoffs. Even an obnoxious, broken clock can be right twice a day.

Now's your time to shine, troll. Have at 'er.

This reminds me of this thread. I tried to bump it but it’s closed:

https://forums.raptorsrepublic.com/f...t-the-deadline

[slaw]

There's no quick fix here that doesn't involve unnecessary risk and/or setting the franchise further back.

There's never a quick fix....

[golden]

I've heard a lot of birdbrained ideas over the years here, but bravo golden -- this one has got to take the cake.

Let's waive Kyle Lowry.

It's not an impossible scenario, though. If our team is sucking hard and there are no logical trade partners (i.e. Clippers don't want to give up assets), then Masai could do that as parting gift to Lowry. There are a number of articles that confirm that Masai considered tanking the first year he got here.... so he's not above fielding a bad roster to get a good pick, so let's stop acting like it's sacrilege to even consider and discuss it. You've all just been spoiled with so much winning over the last decade. Nobody would want to see Lowry leave (and especially not for nothing), but it could definitely happen.

[Kagemusha]

It's not an impossible scenario, though. If our team is sucking hard and there are no logical trade partners (i.e. Clippers don't want to give up assets), then Masai could do that as parting gift to Lowry. There are a number of articles that confirm that Masai considered tanking the first year he got here.... so he's not above fielding a bad roster to get a good pick, so let's stop acting like it's sacrilege to even consider and discuss it. You've all just been spoiled with so much winning over the last decade. Nobody would want to see Lowry leave (and especially not for nothing), but it could definitely happen.

Brave words of wisdom.


I still want those draft picks though.

[The Great One]

Yessir!
I'm thinking big picture here.

- Current team is middling at best
- Lowry is a dead FA walking
- We are not a FA destination, even after a championship
- We need a legit superstar which is too costly
- Team isn't playing at home hence less fan engagement/backlash
- Cade Cunningham !!!
- Mobley
- Jalen Green
- Suggs, Kuminga, etc

Yep. They are stuck in no man's land right now. They're not going anywhere with FVV and Siakam as 1 and 2.

I don't want to see the Raptors end up like the Blue Jays. 3 playoff appearances since 93. I don't want them to completely become irrelevant.

I know there are a lot of Jays fans here but think about it, 3 playoff appearances since 93. THREE in 28 years.

[Kagemusha]

Yep. They are stuck in no man's land right now. They're not going anywhere with FVV and Siakam as 1 and 2.

I don't want to see the Raptors end up like the Blue Jays. 3 playoff appearances since 93. I don't want them to completely become irrelevant.

I know there are a lot of Jays fans here but think about it, 3 playoff appearances since 93. THREE in 28 years.

Also, I heard the All Canadian Division is going to be crazy this year.
Something to keep us entertained in this punt year.

[A.I]

It's not an impossible scenario, though. If our team is sucking hard and there are no logical trade partners (i.e. Clippers don't want to give up assets), then Masai could do that as parting gift to Lowry. There are a number of articles that confirm that Masai considered tanking the first year he got here.... so he's not above fielding a bad roster to get a good pick, so let's stop acting like it's sacrilege to even consider and discuss it. You've all just been spoiled with so much winning over the last decade. Nobody would want to see Lowry leave (and especially not for nothing), but it could definitely happen.

Throw away an asset so you can tank harder. Its a terrible idea. Sounds like a strategy to start "The Process" which took like 7 years of tanking. Masai isn't opposed to tanking if it comes to that, but he isn't going to throw away one of our most valuable assets to do that.

[golden]

Throw away an asset so you can tank harder. Its a terrible idea. Sounds like a strategy to start "The Process" which took like 7 years of tanking. Masai isn't opposed to tanking if it comes to that, but he isn't going to throw away one of our most valuable assets to do that.

Yep, that's a last ditch scenario, really only as a show of respect to the greatest Raptor.... if he specifically requests to leave and there are no other options. As PM pointed out, finding a trading partner for Lowry's salary @ $30M/yr could be difficult without taking on salaries and players (Morris, Beverley, Lou Will.... yuck) that you really don't want going forward, or who mess up the tank.

That said, I'm totally OK with trying to stay competitive, re-signing Lowry and squeezing 3 more years out of him while trying to use Fred to trade up for a legit shot-creating SG, or trading OG for a legit scoring wing. The OG/FVV/Siakam core is lacking an alpha crunch-time scorer and I don't see any of those guys developing that skill. Fred tries really, really hard but he's too small. Siakam doesn't have the handles. And OG, well... nothing needs to be said.

edit: Sam Hinkie was only the Sixers GM for like 2+ years before they brought in Jerry Colangelo. The Process was actually a lot shorter than most people realize.

[Puffer]

...I don't want to see the Raptors end up like the Blue Jays. 3 playoff appearances since 93. I don't want them to completely become irrelevant.

I know there are a lot of Jays fans here but think about it, 3 playoff appearances since 93. THREE in 28 years.

Yep. They're as bad as the Leafs...No! Wait a minute!

[Puffer]

On another tack entirely, isn't there a game tonight? Is everyone (with talent) afraid to be the next game thread crash and burn victim?

[G__Deane]

Also, I heard the All Canadian Division is going to be crazy this year.
Something to keep us entertained in this punt year.

A lot of people are going to like it; habbies and Edmonton 9X or whatever.
But I hate it, no Bruins, Rangers, Red Wings, Blackhawks, Blues, Flyers, Penguins.... blech

It's a novelty and maybe even necessary this year ....but blech