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Game # 10 Raps at Blazers Monday January 11th 10pm on Sportsnet

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  • chris wrote: View Post

    none. which is why i'd prefer to hang onto him if the only way to acquire an additional middling/late round pick is taking on shitty contracts that will prevent us from adding depth over the next few years
    The shitty contracts you bring back have to be expiring; it's just to make the dollars work and they don't prevent you from acquiring additional depth in the following ears whatsoever. What you're actually trading for is the young player with upside and/or a decent pick that lines up closer to Pascal, FVV, OG and Flynn.
    Last edited by G__Deane; Tue Jan 12, 2021, 04:41 PM.

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    • G__Deane wrote: View Post

      The shitty contracts you bring back have to be expiring; it's just to make the dollars work. What you're actually trading for is the young player with upside and/or a decent pick.
      perhaps a matter of semantics but to me there's a world of difference between shitty contracts and shitty players on expiring contracts. a shitty contract has multiple years on it and negative trade value, such that it is packaged with picks or prospects to shed. no matter how bad the player is on an expiring contract, it is always a positive asset because it offers the team acquiring it cap relief in short order.

      like i said in an earlier post, a pick coupled with an expiring contract is an entirely different proposition. i'm assuming golden is talking about deals similar to OKC acquiring horford or brooklyn taking on allen crabbe/mozgov/demarre carroll during their rebuild. he confirmed as much in his posts above

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      • Yuri Gagarin wrote: View Post
        Sure pascals handles are exceptional for pf but not for a pf thats considered a no1 option and will be the guy taking potential game winners in iso’s. In those situations hes actually frightening to watch. He seems to give one away in the final 2 minutes of a close game on a regular.

        and ya OG I love him as much as the next guy but hes totally awkward dribbling. Hes basically an empty space in those final plays unless hes left open even then its a crapshoot despite recent success
        Eh I dont want OG handling in transition or running PnR, but I trust him in the drive and kick game. Honestly he made a nice play coming off a curl in crunch time last night. Came off the screen from Boucher and turned the corner pretty hard with an attacking dribble then when both defenders converged reacted with a reteating dribble find Boucher who hit the open 3. Im not giving him an iso but his court vision is good enough I trust him in 2 dribble plays to make good quick decisions. If he gets comfortable rising up for 3s coming off those curls thats a really solid addition to the offense - need to be unpredictable when you dont have a one man offense.

        OGs going to get beat up for all he cant do, but hes shown me quite a bit of improvement from last year already. He was always a project, but the way he keeps advancing and perfecting his role, while slowly adding more to that role is impressive. Speaks to his work ethic and how you develop as a young guy on winning teams.

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        • is Gary Harris a shitty contract?
          Only one thing matters: We The Champs.

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          • MixxAOR wrote: View Post
            is Gary Harris a shitty contract?
            yes in my opinion. but it's lower-grade shittiness and represents to me the kind of the temporary/grey area shitty contract golden was referring to above. only one year left after this year and is a player that could actually help us, that's the sort of thing i'd entertain (depending what was coming back with it).

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            • Would you do OG straight up for John Collins?

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              • saints91 wrote: View Post
                Would you do OG straight up for John Collins?
                Yes.
                Collins is a more talented player in my view.

                This season is nothing like we have seen before. So far the Raps have avoided the 3 or 5 players out due to virus protocols but it would appear that anyone might be able to win this given the circumstances this season is being played under.

                So ya gotta wonder... with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight...
                With Serge at the 5 would this team have a better than 50% shot at getting to the ECF?
                Last edited by Demographic Shift; Tue Jan 12, 2021, 06:04 PM.
                I don't normally like a tank. But when I do I prefer a #TampaTank.

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                • chris wrote: View Post

                  yes in my opinion. but it's lower-grade shittiness and represents to me the kind of the temporary/grey area shitty contract golden was referring to above. only one year left after this year and is a player that could actually help us, that's the sort of thing i'd entertain (depending what was coming back with it).
                  Now you're starting to get the hang of it. The problem with the Nuggets pick is that it could still be in the high 20's, but still would be better than getting nothing.

                  Another team I'd look at is the Knicks. They have a new POBO and the ultimate win-now coach, Thibs. Just making the playoffs would be hailed like winning a championship for that city. Knicks own their own + the Mavs 1st round pick, unprotected, which could be one Luka injury away from being top 5. Julius Randall would have been the obvious "bad contract" coming back, but he's playing lights-out this year, so the math might be difficult. But also, you see how bad contracts can quickly flip to useful assets? Lowry to the Knicks and drafting a stud with that pick would be the perfect ending to the trade that should have happened in 2013.

                  planetmars brought up the Wiggins + TWolves FRP from GSW for Lowry a few times. That's another bad contract that could be worth the risk. You never know.... Wiggins playing at home in front of friends and family might be the one thing that lights a fire, to finally realize the Maple Jordan potential. Our core needs a starting SG anyway. Would probably have to attach another NBA calibre player (e.g. Powell) to that trade, since GSW has to maximize winning while Curry is still in his prime.

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                  • golden wrote: View Post

                    Now you're starting to get the hang of it. The problem with the Nuggets pick is that it could still be in the high 20's, but still would be better than getting nothing.

                    Another team I'd look at is the Knicks. They have a new POBO and the ultimate win-now coach, Thibs. Just making the playoffs would be hailed like winning a championship for that city. Knicks own their own + the Mavs 1st round pick, unprotected, which could be one Luka injury away from being top 5. Julius Randall would have been the obvious "bad contract" coming back, but he's playing lights-out this year, so the math might be difficult. But also, you see how bad contracts can quickly flip to useful assets? Lowry to the Knicks and drafting a stud with that pick would be the perfect ending to the trade that should have happened in 2013.

                    planetmars brought up the Wiggins + TWolves FRP from GSW for Lowry a few times. That's another bad contract that could be worth the risk. You never know.... Wiggins playing at home in front of friends and family might be the one thing that lights a fire, to finally realize the Maple Jordan potential. Our core needs a starting SG anyway. Would probably have to attach another NBA calibre player (e.g. Powell) to that trade, since GSW has to maximize winning while Curry is still in his prime.
                    dude i'm not new to following this league or how this all works. i prefaced my original post by saying i wouldn't entertain it unless it was a highly valuable pick, such as the wolves pick. still not sure i'd do it. wiggins is what he is and is never morphing into maple jordan. but he's also not completely useless either, and is someone who can get his own shot off, which we lack. harris is not that shitty of a deal, only has one year left, and could play some of the norm/TD minutes more effectively. both are examples i think are worth considering.

                    my point was that i wouldn't take on the equivalent of something like the horford deal (which in my mind is textbook shitty contract which is what i thought you were talking about)... which had three full years at the time OKC took it on and is a player who would not help us at all, for a pick beyond the top half of the lottery. better to let lowry expire and use the space that the horford-like contract would occupy to address depth concerns in future offseasons, in my opinion

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                    • saints91 wrote: View Post
                      Would you do OG straight up for John Collins?
                      no. he's a one-dimensional player that is going to command a lot of money next offseason. i'd rather pay OG 18M than whatever collins is going to make (i'm guessing in the high 20's? don't think he'll get a max offer) and find an alternative solution at C

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                      • Demographic Shift wrote: View Post

                        Yes.
                        Collins is a more talented player in my view.

                        This season is nothing like we have seen before. So far the Raps have avoided the 3 or 5 players out due to virus protocols but it would appear that anyone might be able to win this given the circumstances this season is being played under.

                        So ya gotta wonder... with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight...
                        With Serge at the 5 would this team have a better than 50% shot at getting to the ECF?
                        No but they'd be better than this team as currently constructed.

                        Comment


                        • chris wrote: View Post

                          dude i'm not new to following this league or how this all works. i prefaced my original post by saying i wouldn't entertain it unless it was a highly valuable pick, such as the wolves pick. still not sure i'd do it. wiggins is what he is and is never morphing into maple jordan. but he's also not completely useless either, and is someone who can get his own shot off, which we lack. harris is not that shitty of a deal, only has one year left, and could play some of the norm/TD minutes more effectively. both are examples i think are worth considering.

                          my point was that i wouldn't take on the equivalent of something like the horford deal (which in my mind is textbook shitty contract which is what i thought you were talking about)... which had three full years at the time OKC took it on and is a player who would not help us at all, for a pick beyond the top half of the lottery. better to let lowry expire and use the space that the horford-like contract would occupy to address depth concerns in future offseasons, in my opinion
                          TBH, Horford is exactly the type of smart, veteran center that this team actually could use as an immediate stop-gap, this year, who can guard PnR and stretch the floor. Problem is more about the length of that contract, his age lining up with this core and how much he actual has left in the tank. But OKC isn’t in the tax, and that would be their man reason to dump his contract for the Lowry expiring.

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                          • golden wrote: View Post
                            Harry Giles barely plays any minutes for the Blazers. What’s up with that? People were all hot and heavy for us to sign him. And we still need a big man.
                            He is behind Nurkic and Kanter in Portland.
                            Here..he would be behind Boucher and Baynes.


                            I don't normally like a tank. But when I do I prefer a #TampaTank.

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                            • golden wrote: View Post

                              TBH, Horford is exactly the type of smart, veteran center that this team actually could use as an immediate stop-gap, this year, who can guard PnR and stretch the floor. Problem is more about the length of that contract, his age lining up with this core and how much he actual has left in the tank. But OKC isn’t in the tax, and that would be their man reason to dump his contract for the Lowry expiring.
                              Horford is good in a more concervative defensive system but I dont really see him fitting in with how we play defensively. If he hits his threes hes good on O, otherwise we run into a pretty big problem. Idk it could work, but Im not eager to touch that contract.

                              Idk I think you all are quick to dump Lowry, there arent really indications he wants to leave as far as I can tell. If he doesnt want to leave I see no reason to trade him, there is no way the deals are there.

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                              • DogeLover1234 wrote: View Post

                                Horford is good in a more concervative defensive system but I dont really see him fitting in with how we play defensively. If he hits his threes hes good on O, otherwise we run into a pretty big problem. Idk it could work, but Im not eager to touch that contract.

                                Idk I think you all are quick to dump Lowry, there arent really indications he wants to leave as far as I can tell. If he doesnt want to leave I see no reason to trade him, there is no way the deals are there.
                                Its the same people that went on about Masai leaving even though he has shown no indication of leaving either.

                                If there is a good trade you can get for Lowry, you pull the trigger. He is still a good player at his age, so if you can, you try to bring him back in free agency. Not every player wants to go chase championships, Kyle got his here, so we don't know if he wants to go for another ring or if he is comfortable staying where he is.

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