Who Should Be Traded?

[LJ2]

This.
The goal is better and elevate back to contender status.
We're not talking Finals yet.

So the goal is to give up our best defender and FRP's to get a top notch scorer who hasn't been able to elevate his team in any way. Then wait for an opportunity to add a real difference maker which would presumably cost us at least Siakam and additional picks and then we could contend? So essentially we'd have given up our two best defenders, picks galore an we'd be ready to contend for a title. Not to mention Beal's contract would be up at that point and he could walk. LOL, I love how everyone's math adds up to us acquiring the best players in every deal and not give up anything of consequence.

Guys, I'm telling you we are in a position where the best move is to not make any moves. A rebuild/transition is happening whether you are patient enough to wait for it or not.

[Maury]

Finally decided to come back here. Was waiting for the team to start playing well because I imagined the negativity here would be off the rails. Now that it looks like we are who they thought we are I decided to come back. what do people think? Is the tank brigade back? Fade for Cade?

[DogeLover1234]

Sounds like Beal doesn't even wanna leave. He probably knows Masai is coming

Yeah I think Beal wants to be a Dame Lillard type of franchise guy - just been stuck with crummy front offices his whole career. He wont be cheap and I think its a bit early to go all in. We’ve got time to build still before any timer goes off. Seems like with recent trends a Jimmy Butler or Beal level player is available every year for the right price - seems like we are a year or two early to make a trade. I still think you hold or sell. Norm should be a good pickup for any team sniffing around a playoff run - probably nets a late first or a couple seconds. I imagine the league views our bench as an island of misfit toys with potential - develop a couple of valuable pieces there. Come offseason you can move Baynes to a team looking for capspace (hes nonguarenteed) or as salary filler in a trade or SnT. Try again with a MLE signing.

If we come out of this season with a couple valuable cheap rotation guys from the bench, some extra draft equity to develop with Flynn and the core 10% better thats a win. Not very sexy admitedly but gives you some more building blocks.

[A.I]

That's been covered.

We're not getting lebron, AD, Kawhi, Harden, Durant, even a PG etc. They don't/won't come here willingly and building up assets for some once-every-couple-decades Kawhi type deal isn't smart management imo. It was a one and done.

Recent trend maybe but he was over 30 PPG last season too.

We need to start with a tier two Jimmy Buckets or Beal type, pair him with Siakim and see if they can make some magic happen.

Doesn't mean you overpay for Beal. If he is traded at the right cost, you go for it.

[LJ2]

Finally decided to come back here. Was waiting for the team to start playing well because I imagined the negativity here would be off the rails. Now that it looks like we are who they thought we are I decided to come back. what do people think? Is the tank brigade back? Fade for Cade?

Welcome back! Winning a couple of games has derailed most of the talk about tanking, and now the majority are onto the idea of trading for almost anyone with a bit of a name...essentially change for the sake of change.

[big boi]

We need to start with a tier two Jimmy Buckets or Beal type, pair him with Siakim and see if they can make some magic happen.

Jimmy Buckets and Beal are not the same type. And they're not in the same tier. Jimmy Buckets plays good defense and is a solid two way player. Beal isn't. Defense is half of the game. JB has shown an intensity on both ends of the floor that Beal hasn't. JB has shown he is about winning, can lead a team, be clutch in the biggest games and lead his team in the playoffs to be a tough out against even the very best teams. Beal hasn't

Jimmy Butler is the kind of player worth giving up a lot of assets for. Beal isn't. Not if you want to win anyway.

[inthepaint]

So the goal is to give up our best defender and FRP's to get a top notch scorer who hasn't been able to elevate his team in any way. Then wait for an opportunity to add a real difference maker which would presumably cost us at least Siakam and additional picks and then we could contend? So essentially we'd have given up our two best defenders, picks galore an we'd be ready to contend for a title. Not to mention Beal's contract would be up at that point and he could walk. LOL, I love how everyone's math adds up to us acquiring the best players in every deal and not give up anything of consequence.

Guys, I'm telling you we are in a position where the best move is to not make any moves. A rebuild/transition is happening whether you are patient enough to wait for it or not.

I think you're contradicting yourself with the two bolded sentences. No one is suggesting getting beal for nothing, but no one is suggesting giving up the farm for him either, because he's not on the same caliber as Harden & Giannis (the other two targets discussed here in the recent past). He's simply a disgruntled all-star (not MVP caliber), with defensive limitations (but one of the most powerful scorers in the league) and if he were to leave, would be for a good prospect and a pick or two.

A move for him won't be franchise altering in one way or the other: meaning it won't put is in contending immediately but wouldn't kill the future either. What it would do is put us back to 2 or 3 all-stars in the roster, all around the same age, with a balanced offence-defence collectively. That combined with internal development and good drafting, could put us back in contention with a core under 30 over the next few years.

Flip Lowry to a contender for a salary ballast and a pick. Then flip said ballast & pick, plus OG, Norm & a pick of our own, and that will get you beal if he's serious wanting out (which granted he may not be). If Wizs want more than that you tell to take a hike. Now you got a core of Fred/beal/Siakam, all of which taking pressure off each other and raising their games collectively, without our future pick cupboard being depleted. Now we can continue to stay relevant through development and drafting, adding young talent to a core of 3 all-star caliber players.

Either that, or we stay put, let Siakam continue to struggle by being the focal point of the offence (thereby losing value himself as an asset), and let Lowry wilt here too on his final years by being the 5th rotation champion that goes into the ether with noting in return. We won't improve through free agents, and draft is depends heavily on luck. That makes trades as our best viable option to improve the team.

[Yuri Gagarin]

Ive been on and off this fence daily. But overall it seems this stay pat sink or swim is the best way forward. This time next year we’ll know a lot more and the fred, og, siakam contracts will probably/hopefully be more palatable for trade possibilities. Right now they’re way over value.

[inthepaint]

Ive been on and off this fence daily. But overall it seems this stay pat sink or swim is the best way forward. This time next year we’ll know a lot more and the fred, og, siakam contracts will probably/hopefully be more palatable for trade possibilities. Right now they’re way over value.

Spoiler alert: They won't be. Aside from OG, they will be closer to 30, making lots of $, but further removed from the championship, with the most recent playoff performance by then being a first round exit (or non playoff appearance). Their stock will be down. There's a good chance it will be another playoff where Pascal will struggle as the No. 1 option without any help offensively, and that plus the bubble will be tagged to him (Rather than the outstanding player he can be if there's another all-star on the court to take the pressure off him).

That's why they have to decide which path they want to follow this year. If they don't think beal is worth it, gettable etc. fine, move Lowry so the man can chase another ring and we can get a leg up on the rebuild. If they think a beal would lift all the boats here and allow Pascal to get back to his old self, then you go for it.

I feel like they will be pursuing one of these 2 avenues to get away from the middle. If they try to make moves but the moves aren't there, I can understand. What is tough to swallow is choosing to just do nothing and stay in the middle while the team continue the steady bleeding out/declining of assets that's been happening over the past 2 years post-championship.

[G__Deane]

Doesn't mean you overpay for Beal. If he is traded at the right cost, you go for it.

Who ever suggested we should overpay for anybody though?
Any fans who say they aren't happy at the prospects of missing the post season or being knocked out in the first or second round again for year after year again are somehow impatient or want to gut the team.

[inthepaint]

Who ever suggested we should overpay for anybody though?
Any fans who say they aren't happy at the prospects of missing the post season or being knocked out in the first or second round again for year after year again are somehow impatient or want to gut the team.

Two points:
1. We haven't been "knocked out in the first or second round again for year after year again". We won a championship less than two years ago, and have been one of the teams with the most overall wins over the past 7 years
2. I agree with you that wanting to improve them team, even shortly after winning, is not being impatient. Fans and front offices should be looking into that all the time, that's part of the fun in the nba and in fans discussion. That said, realizing that it takes 2 (and sometimes 3 or 4) for a trade to happen, and things won't change overnight even if you're actively trying is also important. Sometimes the team will unfortunately need to go through a natural rebuilding process regardless of what the front office is doing or not doing.

[G__Deane]

Two points:
1. We haven't been "knocked out in the first or second round again for year after year again". We won a championship less than two years ago, and have been one of the teams with the most overall wins over the past 7 years
2. I agree with you that wanting to improve them team, even shortly after winning, is not being impatient. Fans and front offices should be looking into that all the time, that's part of the fun in the nba and in fans discussion. That said, realizing that it takes 2 (and sometimes 3 or 4) for a trade to happen, and things won't change overnight even if you're actively trying is also important. Sometimes the team will unfortunately need to go through a natural rebuilding process regardless of what the front office is doing or not doing.

Some fans are seeing the potential for us to slide back to the Lowry Siakam days and repeating exactly that scenario in the playoffs. Recent results haven't been great considering the regular season success. I agree with your second point

[S.R.]

We need to start with a tier two Jimmy Buckets or Beal type, pair him with Siakim and see if they can make some magic happen.

I disagree, I think you either aim for a top 10 guy or you put yourself in position to get one. Otherwise you're wasting your time.

And how in the world can you say "we're not getting one" when we just one a championship with one.

[A.I]

Who ever suggested we should overpay for anybody though?
Any fans who say they aren't happy at the prospects of missing the post season or being knocked out in the first or second round again for year after year again are somehow impatient or want to gut the team.

That is what being impatient is. You aren't happy which is understandable and you want the team to get back to a championship as quickly as possible and why people are bringing up every high quality player who could be traded.

Should the Raptors settle for a star player who hasn't proven he can elevate a team? Would Beal really push you to contention if its just him and Siakam? I'd be completely okay with a trade given the right price.

If you want to build a contender properly and long term, its going to take a few years unless you get lucky with another disgruntled star, which is happening more and more.

[G__Deane]

That is what being impatient is. You aren't happy which is understandable and you want the team to get back to a championship as quickly as possible and why people are bringing up every high quality player who could be traded.

Should the Raptors settle for a star player who hasn't proven he can elevate a team? Would Beal really push you to contention if its just him and Siakam? I'd be completely okay with a trade given the right price.

If you want to build a contender properly and long term, its going to take a few years unless you get lucky with another disgruntled star, which is happening more and more.

It's not happening HERE more and more. Kawhi was a one off once-every-few decades opportunity to land in Toronto. They're not coming here as FA so you need a trade where you happen to have the best assets of all other NBA teams AND the player will report.

So yes, "settling" for a star player that makes the team better is preferable to sitting on the sidelines for a decade hoping some once in a blue moon situation (that had never happened before) sets up perfectly again.