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  • G__Deane wrote: View Post
    If Lowry was going to re-sign here as a FA (he's going for the biggest $$ which I don't want to pay him) then he's resign here after we trade him, to pick up with this team plus whatever we got for him in the trade.

    We're not going anywhere this year and it appears, Masai/Bobby aren't able to make any moves so that changes.
    It's a no-brainer .... trade Lowry as a favor to him and to make the team even marginally better in the mid term.
    This might not even be possible because it will depend alot on salaries of those coming back, unless they are all expiring, and what lowry will demand in free agency. You trade him we will lose his bird rights and then we can only sign him if we have the cap space.

    It wouldnt happen anyways. If Lowry is traded then his time here is over, at least as a player.

    Comment


    • inthepaint wrote: View Post

      You're absolutely right on the bold. There will be a lot of emotional value from this board attached to Lowry that doesn't reflect his actual trade value because he'd be a playoff rental this season (if there was to be a trade). He's an elite PG with a 2-3 yrs left of high-end ball that can push a contender to the finals/title, but he's also 35 next month, and is a free agent after this season.

      That means other teams can either (a) just wait to get him in free agency or (b) offer a decent package now (but far from a "haul") so they could get him for a playoff run.

      Raptors as a team need to figure out which of these options they want to take:

      (a) Trade him for a realistic pick/prospect package with salary matching (no haul), which will reflect the risk of him walking away in the summer from the team that got him.

      (b) Go toe-to-toe with other teams seeking him in free agency to match their offers and spend a lot (he'll have suitors because he's now the best 2021 free agent and that will drive the price up)

      (c) Just go on plain hope that Lowry will want to stick around on our non-contending roster on a friendly deal (less money). That's what many people with a sentimental view are hoping, but frankly it's not realistic. Lowry will take the best combination of winning situation, cash & term (here or elsewhere), like every free agent in history.

      (d) let him walk for nothing as the 5th champion out the door with nothing back, because whatever package that came before the trade deadline wasn't deemed good enough.

      This could be a forum poll.

      I'd go with option A, get some prospect/picks back even if it's not a stellar 'haul", then use those assets plus some assets of our own to get whatever best player is available out there to help us win and balance our roster, both in terms of positions and age of the core.

      Wasn't the idea to save cap space and "make a splash" in 2021 all the way back when they timed the Derozan/Lowry extensions? Let the man go compete and get another bag somewhere else, then later build a statue here and give him a TV or a coaching job here if he wants to. Now it's time to focus on the team, and as much as we all love Lowry that's what needs to be done.
      The Raps dont really have the ability to just pick one of those options though. They have the option to entertain trades. Its not like every team in the league wants Lowry. And I would be surprised if the Raps are shopping him. Business or no business, I think any lowry trade would ultimately have his blessing, so that will limit the options. I'm assuming that if a trade goes down, it will offer Lowry the potential of a deep playoff run. The miami trade suggested could be an option, and many on the board have wondered about philly because its his hometown and they are a contender and he would clearly help. I personally dont think miami would even entertain the trade idea suggested. They have an aging PG already, why trade a budding star in herro for another?

      But if you are philly, you cant wait til the offseason. They are capped out and if they want Lowry, they need to get him this season, that way they can retain him in the offseason using his bird rights. Problem with philly is they have little attractive assets. They can offer expirings and not so exciting picks, maybe one of their interesting youngsters like maxey or thybulle. I dont think its enough cause the free agent market this off season isnt stellar, so the cap space isnt as valuable as it was before giannis and gobert extended.

      I really think the raps need to get someone back that can immediately help this core in a lowry trade. If we are looking for good lotto picks then you gotta wonder if those players drafted would be able to elevate the core. We cant waste the primes of siakim, og and fred waiting for the help to develop. I guess we can package the picks in a subsequent trade, but there is a lot of hope and luck in that path.

      So a Philly trade really requires a third team. Including the cavs is another option, if one was high on drummond. I'd rather turner, but drummond might be more realistic because getting the cavs what they want might be easier than getting the pacers what they want.

      If kevin love were healthy, there might be even more options there. Indy might be interested in a healthy Love if they moved turner. Love as stretch 4 sandwiched between warren and sabonis might be appealing, even with that contract of his.

      Comment


      • There is another option. Trade fred for someone like drummond and a juicy pick/ picks. Lowry and fred isnt the backcourt of the future. Lowry is a leader and the best raptor ever. We need to aim for about 2/3 years. Fred for expiring gives us more room to sign lowry in off season. We can even trade him too and try to get him this summer. Then we have 3 picks coming in they develop along with flynn and og siakam can fine tune as well bring back lowry to hold the fort then we have a core on the same time line and in 2 or so yrs thats when we look for adding a big fa or two

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        • Look at GS they tanked one yr and theyre back to competitive ball without klay back yet

          if you dont have a superstar like steph, durant, lebron, greek to build around its all about the draft. Heck we dont even have a star. All star game is what 20 players? 30 teams sounds about right we’re a little better than a 20th place team with lots of teams on our tail.
          Last edited by Yuri Gagarin; Sun Feb 14, 2021, 02:43 AM.

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          • Yuri Gagarin wrote: View Post
            There is another option. Trade fred for someone like drummond and a juicy pick/ picks. Lowry and fred isnt the backcourt of the future. Lowry is a leader and the best raptor ever. We need to aim for about 2/3 years. Fred for expiring gives us more room to sign lowry in off season. We can even trade him too and try to get him this summer. Then we have 3 picks coming in they develop along with flynn and og siakam can fine tune as well bring back lowry to hold the fort then we have a core on the same time line and in 2 or so yrs thats when we look for adding a big fa or two
            Flynn has done nothing to suggest he is worth building with. He had some nice showings in preseason, thats it. By the time the picks we get develop, siakim will be past his primes. The timelines dont add up. We start looking to collect picks, it might make sense to move siakim too.

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            • JawsGT wrote: View Post

              By the time the picks we get develop, siakim will be past his primes. The timelines dont add up. We start looking to collect picks, it might make sense to move siakim too.
              This is an interesting point and the contrarian in me says everyone is saving 2021 draft picks and this might be a year where you get above average value by trading away a first. I don’t want to do it if the team is out of the playoffs in March but some NBA team is going to acquire a decent player this year by giving up “only” a 2021 first round pick. Some teams will be trying to cut salaries at the deadline for sure and pretty much every team is (over?) valuing this years draft class.

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              • Rudy Bargnani wrote: View Post

                This is an interesting point and the contrarian in me says everyone is saving 2021 draft picks and this might be a year where you get above average value by trading away a first. I don’t want to do it if the team is out of the playoffs in March but some NBA team is going to acquire a decent player this year by giving up “only” a 2021 first round pick. Some teams will be trying to cut salaries at the deadline for sure and pretty much every team is (over?) valuing this years draft class.
                Draft classes can always not pan out. If I remember correctly, the 2014 draft was supposed to be that next big draft class since 2003. Out of the lottery picks, most didn't work out.

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                • JawsGT wrote: View Post

                  Flynn has done nothing to suggest he is worth building with. He had some nice showings in preseason, thats it. By the time the picks we get develop, siakim will be past his primes. The timelines dont add up. We start looking to collect picks, it might make sense to move siakim too.
                  I wouldn't say he hasn't shown anything as much as we are in a position to not rush him. Few rookies are good right away WITH a proper offseason - its just way to early to know anything for sure. From his limited run it looks like the games a bit too much for him, but you can tell hes a hooper with very good instincts.

                  Like it or not, in the cap league you need rotation players on cheap contracts. Rookie contracts give you the most upside - take Siakam on the championship run. A promising prospect is also a lot more valuable in trades than a pick. Even if it takes a year or two to develop its a necessity to retain draft selections if you aren't a piece away from contending.

                  Comment


                  • Heres another crazy trade that only the raps are likely to do:

                    Raps trade lowry and thomas to the 6ers.
                    Raps trade powell and a 2021 2nd to the pacers.
                    Raps trade baynes, a 2021 1st, 2022 1st swap, and a 2023 1st to the wiz.
                    Raps receive Bradley Beal from the Wiz and Myles Turner from the Pacers.

                    Wiz trade Beal to the Raps.
                    Wiz receive Baynes, a 2021 and 2023 1st, a 2022 1st swap from Raps.
                    Wiz receive Danny Green, Ferguson and a 2021 1st from Philly.

                    Philly trades Seth Curry to the Pacers.
                    Philly trades Green, Ferguson and a 2021 1st to the Wiz.
                    Philly receives Kyle Lowry and Matt Thomas from the Raps.

                    Pacers trade Myles Turner to the Raps.
                    Pacers receive Norm Powell and a 2021 2nd from the raps.
                    Pacers receive Seth Curry from the 6ers.

                    Raps:

                    Turner, Siakam, OG, Beal and FVV with Boucher, Bembry, Davis, Watanabe, johnson and flynn rounding out the bench.
                    The raps would surround Beal with great defenders, all of whom can shoot as well. The core would be locked up for the next 3 seasons. We'd lose the groat and heart of this team, but we'd get back the leagues top scorer AND shot blocker. No brainer really if you can stomach the loss of picks. I might even be willing to juice the pacers return with a 1st instead of a second to get this done.

                    Wiz:

                    They suck, despite having two all-stars, one of which is the best scorer this season and the other a triple double machine. They need a hard reset, and 3 1sts, and the rights to a 1st swap can certainly get the ball rolling. No prospects included though, so maybe a davis or watanabe could interest them if just the picks arent enough.

                    Philly:

                    They get a champion and a two way beast and one of the smartest players in the league to round out their starting unit. They lose a 1st and a good guard in Curry, but thats a more than fair swap considering that pick will be 25-30th. Thomas can give them some shooting off the bench, easily replacing greens offence.

                    Pacers:

                    I dont know about the Pacers. I cant figure out what they are up to. They will get a couple of good guards though, and they will have a plethora of them. I'm not sure how they'd feel about that as they'd be thin up front. Powell and curry can help them while they figure out laverts situation. Maybe they can package one or more of their guards to get a decent PF. They also get a 2nd here, but I might be willing to upgrade that to a 1st if necessary. I keep thinking the pacers need to trade for Jerami Grant to pair with sabonis if they were to trade Turner, and this trade might help them do a subsequent deal like that. I dont see any reason why DET should hold on to Grant, they arent that good and they should probably take advantage of the 1st decent management decision they've made in some time by acquiring some draft capital and maybe a prospect.

                    The Raps lose alot of draft capital in this deal, so I'm not sure how folks would feel about that. If you have faith in that starting unit over the next 2-3 seasons then its probably an easy deal to make.
                    Turner, Siakam, OG, Beal and fred have alot of potential IMO.

                    Comment


                    • DogeLover1234 wrote: View Post

                      I wouldn't say he hasn't shown anything as much as we are in a position to not rush him. Few rookies are good right away WITH a proper offseason - its just way to early to know anything for sure. From his limited run it looks like the games a bit too much for him, but you can tell hes a hooper with very good instincts.

                      Like it or not, in the cap league you need rotation players on cheap contracts. Rookie contracts give you the most upside - take Siakam on the championship run. A promising prospect is also a lot more valuable in trades than a pick. Even if it takes a year or two to develop its a necessity to retain draft selections if you aren't a piece away from contending.
                      My post was in response to the idea of building around flynn, OG, and siakam and 3 picks acquired from trading fred, lowry and powell. That just doesnt add for me. I like flynn and understand his role, but you dont gut the team hoping he can thrive next to og, pascal and some picks.

                      Comment


                      • DogeLover1234 wrote: View Post

                        I wouldn't say he hasn't shown anything as much as we are in a position to not rush him. Few rookies are good right away WITH a proper offseason - its just way to early to know anything for sure. From his limited run it looks like the games a bit too much for him, but you can tell hes a hooper with very good instincts.

                        Like it or not, in the cap league you need rotation players on cheap contracts. Rookie contracts give you the most upside - take Siakam on the championship run. A promising prospect is also a lot more valuable in trades than a pick. Even if it takes a year or two to develop its a necessity to retain draft selections if you aren't a piece away from contending.
                        Maybe in 3 years we can realistically talk about Flynn like he is a impact player. We can get a better guard any day of the week if we needed one. Don’t get tied to Flynn he is very tradeable

                        Comment


                        • JawsGT wrote: View Post

                          My post was in response to the idea of building around flynn, OG, and siakam and 3 picks acquired from trading fred, lowry and powell. That just doesnt add for me. I like flynn and understand his role, but you dont gut the team hoping he can thrive next to og, pascal and some picks.
                          I didnt say build around Flynn in particular. Assuming you get 3 1sts out of fred, lowry and norm. Get lowry back then in 18 months you have three near all stars albeit an aged lowry, our young core plus 5 first rnd picks and money to spend. Thats money and rookie contracts for trades/fa’s

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                          • Yuri Gagarin wrote: View Post

                            I didnt say build around Flynn in particular. Assuming you get 3 1sts out of fred, lowry and norm. Get lowry back then in 18 months you have three near all stars albeit an aged lowry, our young core plus 5 first rnd picks and money to spend. Thats money and rookie contracts for trades/fa’s
                            I hear ya, but i really think the idea of trading lowry before the deadline and resigning him in the offseason is just near abouts impossible. Stuff like that just rarely happens, i cant think of an nba example off the top of my head. Plus, Lowry is likely going to be looking for an opportunity to contend next season. I dont think its likely he'd want to return to a rebuilding team.

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                            • JawsGT wrote: View Post

                              I hear ya, but i really think the idea of trading lowry before the deadline and resigning him in the offseason is just near abouts impossible. Stuff like that just rarely happens, i cant think of an nba example off the top of my head. Plus, Lowry is likely going to be looking for an opportunity to contend next season. I dont think its likely he'd want to return to a rebuilding team.
                              Then you think he's leaving anyway; trade him for what you can get.

                              Comment


                              • The Raptors and Cavaliers are engaged in active talks on potential Andre Drummond deal to Toronto/Tampa, per sources.

                                Details about that and more on Inside Pass at @TheAthletic:
                                legs indeed

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