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  • grindhouse wrote: View Post

    Adams contract would be up at the end of the year.
    ball is better than Flynn and you already know I like Woodard. Plus one or 2 first rounders maybe even 3 because we are sending out the best players in that trade.

    we get bigger, I don’t know I see it as a decent trade especially if u get multi draft picks out of it.
    Adams is not on an expiring contract.. his contract got extended for 2 more years as soon as he was traded to New Orleans. It expires in 2023.

    Comment


    • planetmars wrote: View Post

      Adams is not on an expiring contract.. his contract got extended for 2 more years as soon as he was traded to New Orleans. It expires in 2023.
      well scrap that idea then lol

      Comment


      • I just think it would kinda suck if we stay put. If Lowry says he wants to stay, of course you keep him... Unless he's asking for 30M per.
        As for Powell, I would be very intested to see what he can get us, given the fact that he's been baaaaallin these days. I know there is much more to consider, but if TRoss and a draft pick gave us Ibaka... Well, maybe Norman could bring something even better back, no?

        Comment


        • Still think we should trade norm at peak value. I dont want to give him a 20 mil contract for term and hope he keeps this up. The only consistent thing about his career has been it's been inconsistent has the highest of highs and the lowest of lows. Do we want our ext 4 years to be this team minus Lowry. Are we getting out of round 2 with that?
          the ideal trade partner would be an up and coming team who wants to make the playoffs/wins round and looks at norm as a piece that can grow with their core. Maybe pelicans, mavs, bulls, knicks the type of teams that would fit that bill.
          I just hope he keeps doing this till trade deadline and raptors may have the top 2 trade bait in the league in norm and lowry
          To be the champs you got to beat the champs

          Comment


          • Ok last one lol
            Lowry goes to philly!!!!

            tor
            N. Vucevic
            jabri parker
            robery Woodard

            sac
            Tobis harris
            D bembry
            matt Thomas

            orlando
            buddy hield
            H whiteside
            1 rounder

            phil
            kyle Lowry
            Norman powell
            Last edited by grindhouse; Sat Feb 27, 2021, 01:23 PM.

            Comment


            • bertarapsfan wrote: View Post
              Still think we should trade norm at peak value. I dont want to give him a 20 mil contract for term and hope he keeps this up. The only consistent thing about his career has been it's been inconsistent has the highest of highs and the lowest of lows. Do we want our ext 4 years to be this team minus Lowry. Are we getting out of round 2 with that?
              the ideal trade partner would be an up and coming team who wants to make the playoffs/wins round and looks at norm as a piece that can grow with their core. Maybe pelicans, mavs, bulls, knicks the type of teams that would fit that bill.
              I just hope he keeps doing this till trade deadline and raptors may have the top 2 trade bait in the league in norm and lowry
              The problem with trading Norm right now is that we don't have any obvious alternative source for what he's brought to the team's offence recently (consistent primary/secondary scoring at generally high efficiency, and effectiveness on the drive), either in terms of existing players or potential promotion candidates from the 905.

              Short of a tear-down and rebuild approach, this means we either need to bring someone else back who can do most of that for us, or we need to take our lumps in that area in order to bring in somebody else that fills a need. And given that Norm's salary this year is only 10 million, we're likely looking at players whose salary tops at about 18-20 million coming back... which is likely what we'd wind up paying Norm next year anyway unless somebody makes him a godfather offer when he opts out.

              I get that there's a lot of discomfort in some quarters with paying Norm that much given that he's previously shown flashes of greatness in between periods of inconsistency. But we still have about a month before the trade deadline to figure whether or not everything has finally clicked for Norm.

              Comment


              • ^^^
                I think I’m at the point I’d rather pay Powell 18-20 a year next year than trade him and a pick and end up paying Oladipo 30 mill next year. To me I’d rather Powell at those numbers.

                Comment


                • But what if we can get a pick out of Norm? Something like Norm for expirings and a pick? Like I can see the Hawks trading Tony Snell and a pick for Powell, for exemple. There's plenty of guys in that salary range who are going unrestricted and who teams probably don't value too much, sadly, and that could see Powell as an option with their core.

                  I just do think this is the move to do. I do like Powell as a player, but as like others said earlier, I would not be happy if Raps paid him 20 M per season. Would rather get something for him and give him a fresh start in a new team, than lose him for nothing like we did with Ibaka last season (was normal though since we wanted another chance at the chip).

                  This way we free up cap space this summer while having a pick back.
                  Last edited by TomAmnot; Sat Feb 27, 2021, 03:05 PM.

                  Comment


                  • TomAmnot wrote: View Post
                    But what if we can get a pick out of Norm? Something like Norm for expirings and a pick? Like I can see the Hawks trading Tony Snell and a pick for Powell, for example. There's plenty of guys in that salary range who are going unrestricted and who teams probably don't value too much, sadly, and that could see Powell as an option with their core.
                    I understand that this is probably coming from the perspective of someone who is expecting Norm's performance to crater... but I'm thinking that this is getting more and more unlikely as time goes by, especially since Norm's been defending capably during this stretch of improved play. Nevertheless, it's a point worth discussing.

                    Expiring salary actually doesn't do us much good right now from a team-construction perspective unless we're doing a full tear-down and rebuild, and doubly so if we're planning to re-sign Lowry. So what you are suggesting would be all about the pick, which in this case would likely be mid-lottery. There would be a significant chance the pick (assuming we hit on it) be two to three years away from being an impactful starter. (Think Jacob Poeltl's timetable.)

                    Given the other pieces the Raptors have locked in for term (Siakim, Anunoby, Van Vleet), I think the team's preference is to continue building and improving the team from where it is, rather than taking an immediate step back like this, especially since the team has a good track record of savvy drafting and strong player development in the late first round.

                    I think if there's a deal to be explored with the Hawks, it is more likely to be structured around Powell heading out and Collins heading in... which probably leaves the salary cap in a similar state to what it is, and fills the frontcourt void at the expense of creating a vacancy at small forward... and (probably) without negatively affecting the team's ability to score by too much. (Powell and Collins are both currently in the top 15 league-wide in points per possession as per https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/j...ve-efficiency/)

                    (Of course, if we're talking probable top-three or top-six picks, the situation is probably considerably different... but if you have a probable top-six pick you're going to be a lot more hesitant to move it, even for someone who has been balling like Norm has been lately.)

                    Comment


                    • I think realistically, Lowry's BEST option is with the Clippers.

                      Sixers, Clippers, Heat:

                      -Whenever you make a trade, you always focusing on the main player you are targeting, if you don't have ANY main players you focused on, then you need to have loaded draft picks, and in order to get from Lowry we are looking at at least 2 1st rd picks

                      -I am ruling out Heat immediately because there's really no one Raptors would be interested in other than Tyler Herro as your main focused player in the trade, but will Heat trade Herro for literally a Rental player? NO! Then you are looking at a bunch of average young talents and picks and contract expiration players. Yea they have contract fillers like Dragic or Olynk but these are dumping players just so they match the contract. And Achiuwa I mean Heat just doesn't have enough or ANYTHING that makes the Raptors intrigued about.

                      -Not to mention Heat is in the eastern conference and potentially competing Raptors with playoff seeding, and potential playoff matchups

                      The Same with the Sixers:

                      -Sixer's young assets are Thybulle and Maxey, Raptors already have OG and have locked him up, and the Raptors have depth and strength at the guards' position, you drafted Flynn and I project Flynn to be the next FVV type player, so there's really redundancy if you acquire players like Thybulle and Maxey

                      -Again, Sixers are in the Eastern conference, the same division as the Raptors, and very likely a potential 2nd round matchup

                      -Many people say, "We should do Lowry a favorite by sending him back home", well, look, it's the last year of his contract, if he wants to go to Philly, he can sign with them in a few months.



                      This brings my conclusion with the Clippers:

                      -As I mentioned, anytime you make a trade, you should have a main piece/player as your focal point and build around the trade offers.

                      I think the Clippers have all the pieces/assets the Raptors need:

                      -Clippers DOES have a 1st Rd pick this year 2021, they traded away this pick for swap rights with the Knicks, so it's likely Clippers will have a late 1st rd pick in 2021.

                      -Yes in my opinion the main piece Raptors are targeting is Zubac. Raptors have enough with the wings and guards but a HUGE hole in the middle, ideally you want a guy kinda like Jarrett Allen. But Zubac is a very good looking exciting young player, the Raptors desperately and now luckily, have an opportunity to acquire him.

                      -Raptors would be a lot better had they kept Jakob Poetl, and Zubac is in the mix of Poetl and JV, and Zubac is only 23

                      -Skilled Center has become an important asset on the contending team and hard to find(a two-way good 3pt shooter is another), again, this is the type of opportunity the Raptors just can't afford to pass on.

                      My trade scenario would be:

                      (Best Case)

                      To Clippers: Kyle Lowry, Patrick McCaw(contract filler)

                      To Raptors: Zubac(main piece of the trade), Lou Williams, Patrick Beverley, Luke Kennard(3pt Specialist and more than just a shooter), 1st rd pick 2021

                      Why best case? because of Luke Kennard in this trade

                      OR

                      To Clippers: Kyle Lowry, Aaron Baynes

                      To Raptors: Zubac, Lou Williams, Patrick Beverley, Luke Kennard, Patrick Patterson(contract match filler), 1st rd pick 2021


                      (The Likely Case)


                      To Clippers: Kyle Lowry

                      To Raptors: Zubac, Lou Williams, Patrick Beverley, Kabengele, 1st rd pick 2021


                      Many people are saying "we can't just give away Lowry to Clippers, there's no one who can replace him on and off the court, and Zubac is not enough and we help Clippers become the old Raptors and win a championship we can't allow to do that?!"

                      -Well, first of all, Lowry is in the final year of his contract, after this year Lowry is a FA so we will lose Lowry for NOTHING if we just let him go

                      -EVEN Lowry, wants to be back, can the Raptors afford him? he's making 30 million in his final year and how many years he demands?

                      -Lowry is 35 years young, how many years Raptors going to offer him?

                      -Lowry sold his house in Toronto, what it tells me is, even Lowry gets traded to Clippers, he will THEN sign with Sixers as FA


                      Bottomline:

                      We are really talking about either letting Lowry walk away for NOTHING or get SOMETHING in return and whats BEST out there right now is a young big man with a draft pick.

                      No we are not getting Tyler Herro, and I take Zubac any day over Achiuwa. and regards Thybulle, and Maxey, yes they are good pieces but Raptors are jammed with players like that, instead of a glaring hole in the middle.

                      As Clippers becoming another Raptor to win a championship....well, who cares....this is capitalism even we don't want them to build like the Raptors, but they already did. I think it's best for Lowry personally to win a championship in LA and then sign with Sixers in the off season.

                      Raptors have already lockup Siakam, FVV, OG, you drafted Flynn who is a promising young guard, and now you add Zubac, that's a pretty young core to build with and all you have to do next is simply get an All Star and you become the team to contend in the next 5 years.

                      Comment


                      • TheWaterboy wrote: View Post

                        I understand that this is probably coming from the perspective of someone who is expecting Norm's performance to crater... but I'm thinking that this is getting more and more unlikely as time goes by, especially since Norm's been defending capably during this stretch of improved play. Nevertheless, it's a point worth discussing.

                        Expiring salary actually doesn't do us much good right now from a team-construction perspective unless we're doing a full tear-down and rebuild, and doubly so if we're planning to re-sign Lowry. So what you are suggesting would be all about the pick, which in this case would likely be mid-lottery. There would be a significant chance the pick (assuming we hit on it) be two to three years away from being an impactful starter. (Think Jacob Poeltl's timetable.)

                        Given the other pieces the Raptors have locked in for term (Siakim, Anunoby, Van Vleet), I think the team's preference is to continue building and improving the team from where it is, rather than taking an immediate step back like this, especially since the team has a good track record of savvy drafting and strong player development in the late first round.

                        I think if there's a deal to be explored with the Hawks, it is more likely to be structured around Powell heading out and Collins heading in... which probably leaves the salary cap in a similar state to what it is, and fills the frontcourt void at the expense of creating a vacancy at small forward... and (probably) without negatively affecting the team's ability to score by too much. (Powell and Collins are both currently in the top 15 league-wide in points per possession as per https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/j...ve-efficiency/)

                        (Of course, if we're talking probable top-three or top-six picks, the situation is probably considerably different... but if you have a probable top-six pick you're going to be a lot more hesitant to move it, even for someone who has been balling like Norm has been lately.)
                        Even tho norm would be a upgrade for them at SG they don’t have anyone to replace Collins. And we already have siakam why do we need Collins?

                        Comment


                        • Eric Montross 00 wrote: View Post
                          I think realistically, Lowry's BEST option is with the Clippers.

                          Sixers, Clippers, Heat:

                          -Whenever you make a trade, you always focusing on the main player you are targeting, if you don't have ANY main players you focused on, then you need to have loaded draft picks, and in order to get from Lowry we are looking at at least 2 1st rd picks

                          -I am ruling out Heat immediately because there's really no one Raptors would be interested in other than Tyler Herro as your main focused player in the trade, but will Heat trade Herro for literally a Rental player? NO! Then you are looking at a bunch of average young talents and picks and contract expiration players. Yea they have contract fillers like Dragic or Olynk but these are dumping players just so they match the contract. And Achiuwa I mean Heat just doesn't have enough or ANYTHING that makes the Raptors intrigued about.

                          -Not to mention Heat is in the eastern conference and potentially competing Raptors with playoff seeding, and potential playoff matchups

                          The Same with the Sixers:

                          -Sixer's young assets are Thybulle and Maxey, Raptors already have OG and have locked him up, and the Raptors have depth and strength at the guards' position, you drafted Flynn and I project Flynn to be the next FVV type player, so there's really redundancy if you acquire players like Thybulle and Maxey

                          -Again, Sixers are in the Eastern conference, the same division as the Raptors, and very likely a potential 2nd round matchup

                          -Many people say, "We should do Lowry a favorite by sending him back home", well, look, it's the last year of his contract, if he wants to go to Philly, he can sign with them in a few months.



                          This brings my conclusion with the Clippers:

                          -As I mentioned, anytime you make a trade, you should have a main piece/player as your focal point and build around the trade offers.

                          I think the Clippers have all the pieces/assets the Raptors need:

                          -Clippers DOES have a 1st Rd pick this year 2021, they traded away this pick for swap rights with the Knicks, so it's likely Clippers will have a late 1st rd pick in 2021.

                          -Yes in my opinion the main piece Raptors are targeting is Zubac. Raptors have enough with the wings and guards but a HUGE hole in the middle, ideally you want a guy kinda like Jarrett Allen. But Zubac is a very good looking exciting young player, the Raptors desperately and now luckily, have an opportunity to acquire him.

                          -Raptors would be a lot better had they kept Jakob Poetl, and Zubac is in the mix of Poetl and JV, and Zubac is only 23

                          -Skilled Center has become an important asset on the contending team and hard to find(a two-way good 3pt shooter is another), again, this is the type of opportunity the Raptors just can't afford to pass on.

                          My trade scenario would be:

                          (Best Case)

                          To Clippers: Kyle Lowry, Patrick McCaw(contract filler)

                          To Raptors: Zubac(main piece of the trade), Lou Williams, Patrick Beverley, Luke Kennard(3pt Specialist and more than just a shooter), 1st rd pick 2021

                          Why best case? because of Luke Kennard in this trade

                          OR

                          To Clippers: Kyle Lowry, Aaron Baynes

                          To Raptors: Zubac, Lou Williams, Patrick Beverley, Luke Kennard, Patrick Patterson(contract match filler), 1st rd pick 2021


                          (The Likely Case)


                          To Clippers: Kyle Lowry

                          To Raptors: Zubac, Lou Williams, Patrick Beverley, Kabengele, 1st rd pick 2021


                          Many people are saying "we can't just give away Lowry to Clippers, there's no one who can replace him on and off the court, and Zubac is not enough and we help Clippers become the old Raptors and win a championship we can't allow to do that?!"

                          -Well, first of all, Lowry is in the final year of his contract, after this year Lowry is a FA so we will lose Lowry for NOTHING if we just let him go

                          -EVEN Lowry, wants to be back, can the Raptors afford him? he's making 30 million in his final year and how many years he demands?

                          -Lowry is 35 years young, how many years Raptors going to offer him?

                          -Lowry sold his house in Toronto, what it tells me is, even Lowry gets traded to Clippers, he will THEN sign with Sixers as FA


                          Bottomline:

                          We are really talking about either letting Lowry walk away for NOTHING or get SOMETHING in return and whats BEST out there right now is a young big man with a draft pick.

                          No we are not getting Tyler Herro, and I take Zubac any day over Achiuwa. and regards Thybulle, and Maxey, yes they are good pieces but Raptors are jammed with players like that, instead of a glaring hole in the middle.

                          As Clippers becoming another Raptor to win a championship....well, who cares....this is capitalism even we don't want them to build like the Raptors, but they already did. I think it's best for Lowry personally to win a championship in LA and then sign with Sixers in the off season.

                          Raptors have already lockup Siakam, FVV, OG, you drafted Flynn who is a promising young guard, and now you add Zubac, that's a pretty young core to build with and all you have to do next is simply get an All Star and you become the team to contend in the next 5 years.
                          Lou Williams hates this organization not happening, they need zubac for depth against davis and the lakers

                          Comment


                          • grindhouse wrote: View Post

                            Lou Williams hates this organization not happening, they need zubac for depth against davis and the lakers
                            Raptors can WAIVE Lou Williams, and it's Clippers who's asking for Lowry not the Raptors, at BEST Raptors adding Baynes into the mix

                            Comment


                            • I wouldn't waive Lou Williams, certainly not this year, he won't care about playing for the raps in Tampa, unless he refused to play, he woukd give us scoring punch off the bench.
                              Also having patrick Beverly and Zubac would give us depth.

                              Comment


                              • TheWaterboy wrote: View Post

                                The problem with trading Norm right now is that we don't have any obvious alternative source for what he's brought to the team's offence recently (consistent primary/secondary scoring at generally high efficiency, and effectiveness on the drive), either in terms of existing players or potential promotion candidates from the 905.

                                Short of a tear-down and rebuild approach, this means we either need to bring someone else back who can do most of that for us, or we need to take our lumps in that area in order to bring in somebody else that fills a need. And given that Norm's salary this year is only 10 million, we're likely looking at players whose salary tops at about 18-20 million coming back... which is likely what we'd wind up paying Norm next year anyway unless somebody makes him a godfather offer when he opts out.

                                I get that there's a lot of discomfort in some quarters with paying Norm that much given that he's previously shown flashes of greatness in between periods of inconsistency. But we still have about a month before the trade deadline to figure whether or not everything has finally clicked for Norm.
                                I dont think we need to get better this season. We arnt winning the title this year. The trade would be for a guy who would better fit with FVV, pascal and OG long term most likely a young guy a team has given up on ie Lonzo or markakaneen and salary filler.
                                Norm will command more the OG and FVV on the open market the way he is playing do we want him to be our futures 2and highest played player or do we want to cash in? That's kind of the question right now
                                To be the champs you got to beat the champs

                                Comment

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