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Who Should Be Traded?

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  • TheWaterboy wrote: View Post
    Can we give the "Oh no Kyle just sold his house it is time to panic panic PANIC" thing a bit of a rest? I'd be a lot more concerned if it was happening at the end of the season.
    To be fair though, why would he wait until the end of the season when they're not at all guaranteed to be playing here in the foreseeable future?

    Why not sell it now in a frothy real estate market if you're not planning on being here next season or can just buy something else if you are. It's not like his wife and kids are living in it either.

    Dude lived on the highway staring at a green metal divider lol

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    • LJ2 wrote: View Post

      I guess what's been lost in all the Lowry trade talk is finding out what Lowry wants. I assumed before the start of the season that he would want to be traded to a potential contender, but could there be a chance he wants to stick around? He certainly hasnt given any indication publicly that he wants out.
      So I'd ask for a hard expression of his desire to return at least (just short of a guarantee) or you deal him; it goes without saying that it has to be for good value.

      Masai/Bobby have to be thinking "what r we going to do if he really asks for $30M X2?"
      You'd think they have at least talked to him.

      I agree with others; you can't let him walk for nothing if that's his intention.

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      • LJ2 wrote: View Post

        I guess what's been lost in all the Lowry trade talk is finding out what Lowry wants. I assumed before the start of the season that he would want to be traded to a potential contender, but could there be a chance he wants to stick around? He certainly hasnt given any indication publicly that he wants out.
        Did Gasol give indications that he wanted out too?
        Some players stay quiet either because they're also unsure of themselves or out of respect to their organizations and team mates.
        They usually decide over the summer, when they're away from the team.
        It's the organization's duty to look for signs to gauge their player's possible intentions.

        Last edited by Kagemusha; Tue Mar 2, 2021, 10:50 AM.

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        • DanH wrote: View Post

          17.4M. Would eat all our cap space even if we cut Boucher.

          There's no real path to real cap space without losing everyone who could be a FA this summer. It's either a FA signing or keeping guys, not both.
          It took years to set up the roster salaries for a max UFA spot - we just had that. Very difficult to do on a winning team. Some teams have lucked into cap spikes (e.g. Golden State), but working their way back to a max spot will take several years of contract finangling again.

          This is where the short patience of fans is just irrelevant. It really doesn't matter. Management can't just create opportunity where there isn't any, they have to deal with the real world. Opportunities to go from good to great are few and far between, no matter which option you pick. They just did the UFA option, swung and missed, and it came at a cost. Now they're in a different position. In the next few years, the path forward is trades. This team is in a similar spot to where the Lowry/Case/DD era was prior to the Kawhi trade.

          A meaningful trade opportunity (that takes you from good to great) may come up this year, this summer, or 2-3 years from now. Strap in, they can't control the opportunities, only position themselves to be a player when they come.
          "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

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          • S.R. wrote: View Post

            It took years to set up the roster salaries for a max UFA spot - we just had that. Very difficult to do on a winning team. Some teams have lucked into cap spikes (e.g. Golden State), but working their way back to a max spot will take several years of contract finangling again.

            This is where the short patience of fans is just irrelevant. It really doesn't matter. Management can't just create opportunity where there isn't any, they have to deal with the real world. Opportunities to go from good to great are few and far between, no matter which option you pick. They just did the UFA option, swung and missed, and it came at a cost. Now they're in a different position. In the next few years, the path forward is trades. This team is in a similar spot to where the Lowry/Case/DD era was prior to the Kawhi trade.

            A meaningful trade opportunity (that takes you from good to great) may come up this year, this summer, or 2-3 years from now. Strap in, they can't control the opportunities, only position themselves to be a player when they come.
            I get that, but I wonder that Masai's thinking is around going that route and avoiding the improving through the draft, path. I'm not saying tank for a top 5 pick, but why not do something along the lines of Boston where they transitioned from the KG era to now through savvy trades for picks? OKC has also gone that route by stocking up on picks and though the outcome is still to be determined they have given themselves every opportunity to find some big time talent in the next few drafts. Incidentally, the two GMS's that have been commonly thought of as the best in the NBA, along with Ujiri for the last few years are Ainge and Presti.

            If someone told me that Toronto was a small market and can't withstand a few down years then I would understand, but that's not the case.

            Not complaining at all, Ujiri is as smart as they come but I'm just curious why he's avoided that avenue for improvement. He does so well with late FRP's, it just seems to make too much sense that he'd have greater success with access to a better talent pool. It also also gives the organization a 5 year window with any players they draft which in the past has for the most part lead to an easier time resigning players. No more emptying the asset cupboard ever 5 years for what is likely a 1 year rental, and a 1 year window to win it all.

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            • LJ2 wrote: View Post

              I guess what's been lost in all the Lowry trade talk is finding out what Lowry wants. I assumed before the start of the season that he would want to be traded to a potential contender, but could there be a chance he wants to stick around? He certainly hasnt given any indication publicly that he wants out.
              Said that before. He hasn't shown any indication and he already won a championship. Not every player wants to ring chase, he could be comfortable where he is.

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              • Kagemusha wrote: View Post

                Did Gasol give indications that he wanted out too?
                Some players stay quiet either because they're also unsure of themselves or out of respect to their organizations and team mates.
                They usually decide over the summer, when they're away from the team.
                It's the organization's duty to look for signs to gauge their player's possible intentions.
                Yes. His play in the bubble spoke volumes.

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                • The return that I'm looking for for Lowry is like what the Bulls got for Butler. A good young player with upside + 1st round pick. If nobody offer tham that kind of package for Lowry, then you keep him. Simple as that.

                  I don't think the Raptors can afford another Chris Bosh situation here but you also just can't trade Lowry for nothing.
                  Mamba Mentality

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                  • The Great One wrote: View Post
                    The return that I'm looking for for Lowry is like what the Bulls got for Butler. A good young player with upside + 1st round pick. If nobody offer tham that kind of package for Lowry, then you keep him. Simple as that.

                    I don't think the Raptors can afford another Chris Bosh situation here but you also just can't trade Lowry for nothing.
                    Butler to the T-Wolves from Bulls is not really comparable. Butler had 2 full years left on his contract when he was traded from the Bulls. Lowry only has a few months left.

                    Butler to the Sixers from T-Wolves is the better comp for Lowry's situation.... albeit less time. T-Wolves got: RoCo, Bayless, Saric and a 2nd round pick from Philly.

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                    • golden wrote: View Post

                      Butler to the T-Wolves from Bulls is not really comparable. Butler had 2 full years left on his contract when he was traded from the Bulls. Lowry only has a few months left.

                      Butler to the Sixers from T-Wolves is the better comp for Lowry's situation.... albeit less time. T-Wolves got: RoCo, Bayless, Saric and a 2nd round pick from Philly.
                      butler was also 27 and still getting better, compared to 35 and not getting better

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                      • chris wrote: View Post

                        butler was also 27 and still getting better, compared to 35 and not getting better
                        He was also doing his best to salt the earth as he left and was being traded by possibly the most incompetent franchise in the NBA, so maybe still not a good comp.

                        Simple reality is the Raptors should ask for a very nice return and should not settle for any less. If he walks, he walks, and unless the alternative is getting real value, you aren't really losing anything letting that happen.
                        twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                        • golden wrote: View Post

                          Butler to the T-Wolves from Bulls is not really comparable. Butler had 2 full years left on his contract when he was traded from the Bulls. Lowry only has a few months left.

                          Butler to the Sixers from T-Wolves is the better comp for Lowry's situation.... albeit less time. T-Wolves got: RoCo, Bayless, Saric and a 2nd round pick from Philly.
                          If that is the best the Raptors can get then they should just keep Lowry.
                          Mamba Mentality

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                          • Lowry needs to be traded and there are a lot of young players that we can go after while taking on a expiring contract to match salaries. Fred and siakam are enough to put u in the playoff conversation.

                            if we had to take on Drummond to get “insert young up and comer we do it. I don’t have faith in us drafting in the lottery. If Bobby doesn’t make a move by trade deadline I am officially questioning his roster building abilities.

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                            • DanH wrote: View Post

                              17.4M. Would eat all our cap space even if we cut Boucher.

                              There's no real path to real cap space without losing everyone who could be a FA this summer. It's either a FA signing or keeping guys, not both.
                              Rough. Not the worst, cause honestly as long as you retain tradeable players you can always make the contracts work - the hard part has always been attracting players. There is some worry maybe you lack leverage, but honestly no team has really gotten screwed over in a sign and trade that I can think of. Maybe you give up a bit extra, but not enough to hoard cap space and flexibility over productive players.

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                              • DanH wrote: View Post

                                17.4M. Would eat all our cap space even if we cut Boucher.

                                There's no real path to real cap space without losing everyone who could be a FA this summer. It's either a FA signing or keeping guys, not both.
                                Q:> Can we go over the cap to keep both Lowry and Powell? If they are on tradeable contracts, and MLSE is okay with paying tax (big IF), that would seem like a good outcome for the off-season.

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