Who Should Be Traded?

[Rudy Bargnani]

Ok then could you say what kind of contract you would offer norm and lowry and what you think theyll be offered elsewhere?

Without looking it up teams with space are Miami, Dallas, Knicks.

I could see Dallas offering Lowry 2 year 50 mil to be the Jason Kidd 2011 role. Miami could offer if they let Dragic go. But either might prefer a younger Oladipo. Powell I don’t know his market value is increasing but will teams rather pursue Oladipo.

Just spitballing but I think Powell is in that 17-20 range so like 4 years 70-80 mill.

Lowry I could see 1 year 25 mill. Or longer term at lower annual amounts. 2 year 45?

Terrence Davis is also a free agent.

If we keep Lowry/Powell and add our draft picks contract we are over cap and there isn’t much room to do much else beyond exceptions. That said Lowry and Powell might be 2 of the best free agents this summer.

[planetmars]

Ok then could you say what kind of contract you would offer norm and lowry and what you think theyll be offered elsewhere?

Waterboy and Rudy Bargnani gave great replies.

It's hard to know what other teams are willing to spend.. it only takes one team to set the market.. but there are only like 3-4 teams in the entire NBA that can afford a $20-$30M contract. And I don't think many teams would gut their rosters for a Norm type player. He's been great this past month.. but the only thing he's really providing is offense. He's not a good passer, rebounder, and is a pretty mediocre defender. Norm gets a lot of points off cuts, transition and spot up shooting. He rarely creates offense on his own like a Bradley Beal or CJ McCollum. Norm feels more like a Lou type of player even though he's starting. Lou is still really only making mid-level type of money. Leo Routins did his radio rounds this weekend, and felt that Norm might even opt into his $11.6M deal. I don't see that happening personally due to his injury history, but if he got around $12M I wouldn't be too shocked. Raptors could easily match that.

Raptors are not chasing Giannis anymore so don't have to worry about freeing cap space to bring in a whale. So I could see the Raptors bringing Norm in for around $15-16M a year. Maybe he gets OG money. I don't think he gets Fred money. But I really do see him coming back. I feel much better about that happening than Lowry though.

Kyle is a weird one.. because he's older and our core is younger. Masai said he would take care of Kyle.. which I'm taking to mean that he will do whatever Kyle wants to do. His agent pretty much said that Kyle is looking for $30M deals. Not many teams can offer that.. definitely not Philly or LAC. Miami could but they also love Dragic over there.. and I'm sure they'd want to take care of him. Dallas could use him too but does Kyle want to play in Dallas? He's got no friends there. Would he go to NY? San Antonio doesn't need him since they have so many young guards but they can be free agent buyers. He might be better off just staying in Toronto. Lowry could take the full mid level like Serge did.. but that's an underpay despite his age. If the Raptors want him, he'll be back. And I don't know why they wouldn't want him back. His game has not taken a step back at all. Now if Kyle does want to leave, we try and do a sign and trade. Which has happened a lot recently. KD was a S&T. Hayward was a S&T. Jimmy was a S&T.. and those were all big money transactions as well.

The only thing that will affect the Raptors deals will be the luxury tax. If we give Norm a $45M/3 year deal, and Kyle a $60M/2 year deal.. we'll be capped out, but we'll still be able to duck the tax. Cut Baynes and we can probably get the full mid level as well to replace him with someone better.

[G__Deane]

IF we hang onto him, I'm hoping Kyle will take a series of 1 year deals (which I doubt).
But if he really wants 30M X anything, just not a fan. Don't want to be burned in any final year of Kyle; his play is still top shelf for what he brings but injuries are becoming more often and nagging.

[LJ2]

I'm sure that someone here will dig out the specifics, but I'm pretty sure that the brief answer is either "not any" or "not nearly enough."

Okay then, how about if we let both Lowry and Norm walk for nothing? What sort of cap space would we have available for free agency?

Reality is that Lowry isn't a part of the future core, and what Norm brings is somewhat easily replaced by Davis, Flynn or even Harris who has looked good with 905. We'll also have at least our own FRP.

We don't need max cap space to bring in a superstar, but we'll have to find another big that can hopefully contribute on both sides of the ball.

[planetmars]

Okay then, how about if we let both Lowry and Norm walk for nothing? What sort of cap space would we have available for free agency?

Reality is that Lowry isn't a part of the future core, and what Norm brings is somewhat easily replaced by Davis, Flynn or even Harris who has looked good with 905. We'll also have at least our own FRP.

We don't need max cap space to bring in a superstar, but we'll have to find another big that can hopefully contribute on both sides of the ball.

If Norm, Kyle, Baynes, Stanley, McCaw all leave / gets waived.. we have about $23M in cap space. If Boucher gets waived too, we'll have about $30M.

[S.R.]

If Norm, Kyle, Baynes, Stanley, McCaw all leave / gets waived.. we have about $23M in cap space. If Boucher gets waived too, we'll have about $30M.

Really think they've ended up in a spot where it's better to keep the assets and try to make trades, pretty high risk that you can't replace that talent with $23m cap space, you might end up worse off.

This is still a pretty good team with some room for internal growth as some key guys are still developing and a couple decent prospects are in house. Leap to very good is going to need to be a trade opportunity. That means you need: solid players on good contracts, prospects, and picks in your cupboard. They're getting there as guys like Norm, Boucher, even Bembry show some value. Flynn and Davis still need to show something but the potential is there.

[JawsGT]

Lowry for Harris and parts is already talked about on philly radio all of last week. They want Lowry to home home bad. FYI I am a eagles fan so I listen to a lot of their radio

Probably the only realistic deal involving the players you listed. But, we certainly dont need Harris, so it would be great to find that 3rd team that could use him and give us value for Lowry. Denver is interesting to me, cause MPJ is hurting their defence, and is young with a ton of potential. Harris might be a better fit for them, if they can stomach his contract. I've thought alot about Denver, what about:

Raps get Beal
Philly gets Lowry
Den gets Harris
Wiz get MPJ + expirings and picks.

That would be the basis, plus parts and picks where necessary. Biggest issue there is that Den might be just as well to deal with Washington directly. They might prefer Beal to Harris (who wouldn't?) even though there is some overlap with Jamal.

[LJ2]

If Norm, Kyle, Baynes, Stanley, McCaw all leave / gets waived.. we have about $23M in cap space. If Boucher gets waived too, we'll have about $30M.

Can't see them waiving Boucher with him being as productive as he's been and the team with such a thin rotations of bigs.

I wonder if there might be the possibility of trying to sign Oladipo or event trading for him now? Haven't seen him play too much but his numbers look like they are starting to return to form of what they were before injury. Pretty similar to Freddy, so would an offer along the same lines work? If Dipo is completely healthy that is the type of defender Masai would want to add to this roster.

[golden]

I think we need to hold onto Lowry & Powell until the off-season and hopefully there are multi-team, sign & trade scenario that potentially works in combination with a disgruntled superstar shaking loose.

The other reason to wait for the off-season would be that OG's poison pill expires and his contract becomes an easier asset to include in trades. Davis & Boucher are also sign & trade candidates. OG is quite a bit overhyped, at least around here, but hopefully the rest of the league has a similar opinion.

[LJ2]

Really think they've ended up in a spot where it's better to keep the assets and try to make trades, pretty high risk that you can't replace that talent with $23m cap space, you might end up worse off.

This is still a pretty good team with some room for internal growth as some key guys are still developing and a couple decent prospects are in house. Leap to very good is going to need to be a trade opportunity. That means you need: solid players on good contracts, prospects, and picks in your cupboard. They're getting there as guys like Norm, Boucher, even Bembry show some value. Flynn and Davis still need to show something but the potential is there.

That is probably the way it will go, but I sort of hope not. Trading for a superstar to put us over the top just seems like a short term fix to our problems and we're not always going to be able to field a competitive team when they leave. We need to find a star in free agency or draft to ensure they are around long enough to have a long window of contention for a championship. Or ideally if we go the trade route then be a preferred landing spot for that player. DeMar's love for this City was no small thing I tell ya.

[golden]

Can't see them waiving Boucher with him being as productive as he's been and the team with such a thin rotations of bigs.

I wonder if there might be the possibility of trying to sign Oladipo or event trading for him now? Haven't seen him play too much but his numbers look like they are starting to return to form of what they were before injury. Pretty similar to Freddy, so would an offer along the same lines work? If Dipo is completely healthy that is the type of defender Masai would want to add to this roster.

Oladipo's numbers are indeed returning to his career averages when he was healthy. Shield your eyes.

[LJ2]

Oladipo's numbers are indeed returning to his career averages when he was healthy. Shield your eyes.

Yuck, trending in the opposite direction of what you want. I wonder however if that is more due to his health/ability or to wanting out of Houston?

[planetmars]

Yuck, trending in the opposite direction of what you want. I wonder however if that is more due to his health/ability or to wanting out of Houston?

It's a big gamble.. because bringing in Dipo surely means no more Norm or Lowry and possibly Boucher depending on his asking price. I'm not really a fan of his. I think he's become overrated. He had one really great season but then that's it. And he's had an 8 year career. It's not like he's a rookie or anything.

Norm will be cheaper too because he doesn't have an all-star on his resume.

Our biggest need is at C anyway. If we're losing Norm and Lowry I'd get a big so that we don't have to rely on small ball all the time.

[planetmars]

Really think they've ended up in a spot where it's better to keep the assets and try to make trades, pretty high risk that you can't replace that talent with $23m cap space, you might end up worse off.

This is still a pretty good team with some room for internal growth as some key guys are still developing and a couple decent prospects are in house. Leap to very good is going to need to be a trade opportunity. That means you need: solid players on good contracts, prospects, and picks in your cupboard. They're getting there as guys like Norm, Boucher, even Bembry show some value. Flynn and Davis still need to show something but the potential is there.

It's boring but yes, this is most likely the plan. Bring Lowry and Norm back. Toss Baynes, McCaw and Stanley and replace them all with a better C on a 2-3 year deal. I like Bembry and he should come back. I'd give Davis another shot too, but he's been underwhelming so his price should be cheap.

The more moveable contracts we have the better so that when a star comes around, we have the assets to trump other team's assets.

[golden]

Yuck, trending in the opposite direction of what you want. I wonder however if that is more due to his health/ability or to wanting out of Houston?

Oladipo had exactly ONE, count'em, ONE.... good season.

The year immediately after his breakout season, he reverted back to his inefficient chucking ways.... this was BEFORE the devastating injury vs. the Raps. In 2018-19 he made his second all-star appearance, but only had an ORTG of 104, TS 51.9%, FG 42.3% and 3P 34.3%. Those are all way below average for an all-star... even a fringe all-star.

Even before his injury, Dipo was already regressing back to his normal mean. He didn't deserve that second all-star nod. He went back to being exactly who he was/is.