Who Should Be Traded?

[The Claw Reborn]

$20M is a lot to give to a player like Norm. He's a microwave. Built like Lou Williams, Jordan Clarkson, Eric Gordon.

Gordon made about $19M a year so maybe that's the ballpark, but that was an overpay.

Only takes one team to set the market though. If he's going to cost $20M then c'ya.

Yes his average annual value could be around 18 to 20 million.

another fork in the road, Webster is facing before the deadline

Norm deserved to get paid, best player of the Raptors this season no doubt. But unfortunately, all his overpaid co-Robins shit the bed.

[The Claw Reborn]

2021-22

Siakam - 33m
Van Vleet - 19.6m
OG - 16m

Powell - 18/20m

potentially a 90 million payroll for four guys that legitimately a first round road kill or a perennial play-in team

*** Add Boucher 7 million

[The Claw Reborn]

The dilemma of tanking vs. middling

As is....Hard for this team to totally suck bad to get in to the top 3 pick because they already have invested half their payroll on 3 players and potentially 4 with mediocre ceiling (though I still believe OG at 23 have a higher ceiling than the rest). Unless a major injury would happen to one of them God Forbid.

Only way is to trade one of these still young assets but that alone can be very difficult to package a player and a low pick to get a top 5 pick with a shitty contract attached just to match salaries.

rest assure that there is a Doncic waiting as a potential top 3

Solution is to trade one of them when their value is still peaking at a ripe age to get a fringe star then go from there

we got so damn lucky to acquire Kawhi and Gasol

hard to replicate that but hanging on to mediocrity can also be painful

[G__Deane]

2021-22

Siakam - 33m
Van Vleet - 19.6m
OG - 16m

Powell - 18/20m

potentially a 90 million payroll for four guys that legitimately a first round road kill or a perennial play-in team

*** Add Boucher 7 million

Hot take: as much as I love Lowry and like Siakam, both are over paid in the 30's ....

[LJ2]

If you have a plan for getting better players here to take that money then let's hear it. Otherwise I'd rather see that money in their pockets than MLSE's.

[slaw]

$20M is a lot to give to a player like Norm. He's a microwave. Built like Lou Williams, Jordan Clarkson, Eric Gordon.

Gordon made about $19M a year so maybe that's the ballpark, but that was an overpay.

Only takes one team to set the market though. If he's going to cost $20M then c'ya.

Just not sure where bringing back Lowry and Powell lands the team. I mean, that would be ~$110-$120 on 5 guys. It's not the worst group but without any support we've seen the ceiling of that group and it isn't going to be competitive with teams like the Nets, Celtics, Sixers, Bucks, especially when the margin for error is so small.

On the other hand, what does moving Norm accomplish? This team is severely lacking in offensive firepower with Powell being one of the very few guys who can light it up. Given that they need more scoring, moving Norm seems counterintuitive cause they aren't going to easily replace him without spending money anyway.

[planetmars]

Just not sure where bringing back Lowry and Powell lands the team. I mean, that would be ~$110-$120 on 5 guys. It's not the worst group but without any support we've seen the ceiling of that group and it isn't going to be competitive with teams like the Nets, Celtics, Sixers, Bucks, especially when the margin for error is so small.

On the other hand, what does moving Norm accomplish? This team is severely lacking in offensive firepower with Powell being one of the very few guys who can light it up. Given that they need more scoring, moving Norm seems counterintuitive cause they aren't going to easily replace him without spending money anyway.

The way I look at things.. this team is very similar to last years team. The big difference is the drop off in production from Siakam and Lowry.. and the lack of center. Those things held us back (we had the 2nd best record in the league last year, and a few possessions away from another ECF birth).

The Tampa project didn't help.. and neither did Covid. Those two things will presumably be resolved next year. And I blame Covid with Siakam's play more than anything. I also assume Fred will get better so his play should offset Lowry's regression.

So if we pay all those guys.. and we can get a center to replace Marc/Serge, I think we'll be back on track again.

Are we a top tier contender right out of the gate? No. That requires a Kawhi/Lebron/Curry/KD level talent. But we should at least contend like Boston/Miami/Philly again.

[slaw]

The way I look at things.. this team is very similar to last years team. The big difference is the drop off in production from Siakam and Lowry.. and the lack of center. Those things held us back (we had the 2nd best record in the league last year, and a few possessions away from another ECF birth).

The Tampa project didn't help.. and neither did Covid. Those two things will presumably be resolved next year. And I blame Covid with Siakam's play more than anything. I also assume Fred will get better so his play should offset Lowry's regression.

So if we pay all those guys.. and we can get a center to replace Marc/Serge, I think we'll be back on track again.

Are we a top tier contender right out of the gate? No. That requires a Kawhi/Lebron/Curry/KD level talent. But we should at least contend like Boston/Miami/Philly again.

It's a fair point. I'm not really fussed whatever they do - they've got 5-6 years of goodwill with me from the title and even last season. Whatever happens, they definitely need more out of Siakam cause he has been a big disappointment this season and as the highest paid player on the team he needs to produce far more and far more consistently.

And maybe that's the answer. Bring the band back and count on Siakam, OG, FVV all getting better, though, I do feel as though the backcourt of Lowry/FVV is going to increasingly struggle as Lowry gets older.

[golden]

The way I look at things.. this team is very similar to last years team. The big difference is the drop off in production from Siakam and Lowry.. and the lack of center. Those things held us back (we had the 2nd best record in the league last year, and a few possessions away from another ECF birth).

The Tampa project didn't help.. and neither did Covid. Those two things will presumably be resolved next year. And I blame Covid with Siakam's play more than anything. I also assume Fred will get better so his play should offset Lowry's regression.

So if we pay all those guys.. and we can get a center to replace Marc/Serge, I think we'll be back on track again.

Are we a top tier contender right out of the gate? No. That requires a Kawhi/Lebron/Curry/KD level talent. But we should at least contend like Boston/Miami/Philly again.

It's not just us getting worse. People rarely acknowledge or talk about the fact that other teams can get better.

Charlotte, Knicks and Bulls are traditional cannon fodder lottery teams that are moving towards respectability and can now make winning tougher for us. Add the Hawks to that group when DeAndre Hunter (and his ability to guard at least 3 positions) gets back.

Then there's the Nets, who went from a perennial 7-11 treadmill to the most talented team in the league. And the Sixers, who have all-star/MVP talent, but were simply overdue in changing their coach and putting shooters around Simmons & Embiid. And still have to deal with Miami, Boston & the Bucks, who have stood pat, but most people would rank above us, coming into this season.

[The Claw Reborn]

If a trade will happen before the deadline, set aside all the obvious scenarios being discussed around the world wide web...but could there be an earth shattering franchise altering move between Indiana and Toronto being hidden close to the vest...

Something that may affect the core of each team

[Yuri Gagarin]

No rush. Theyre just waiting for the deadline and hoping a bidding war happens at the last hour. If not - fk it. If theres a good deal Im trusting webster and masai

[Dr Hannibal Lecter]

It would be biggest mistake 2 keep Lowry and Powell, this franchise needs this team 2 retool and rebuild around your young core..Freddy, Siakim, OG..Norm is 29..ppl, his not a good defender, sure he can score, but on a championship team, his 6th, 7th guy..trade him while his stock is incredible high, same with Lowry..he aint coming back, do u guys understand, u are gonna loose him for nothing, time 2 do what it should of been done last year, with gasol and ibaka, here is your chance again and what your playing for first rd exit, this team ain't championship team, do what is right, time 2 move on..

[planetmars]

It's not just us getting worse. People rarely acknowledge or talk about the fact that other teams can get better.

Charlotte, Knicks and Bulls are traditional cannon fodder lottery teams that are moving towards respectability and can now make winning tougher for us. Add the Hawks to that group when DeAndre Hunter (and his ability to guard at least 3 positions) gets back.

Then there's the Nets, who went from a perennial 7-11 treadmill to the most talented team in the league. And the Sixers, who have all-star/MVP talent, but were simply overdue in changing their coach and putting shooters around Simmons & Embiid. And still have to deal with Miami, Boston & the Bucks, who have stood pat, but most people would rank above us, coming into this season.

Yeah the East has gotten better near the middle (7-10 range).. but it's still the middle. Raptors were on pace for 60 wins last year before the bubble, and that was with many guys in and out of the lineup.. but what we had was depth at C.

It could be pie in the sky thinking.. but I don't think we're that far away from being near the Boston/Philly/Miami/Milwaukee group with a lot of luck to surpass the Nets in the playoffs.. It's really just a bunch of teams where any potential series could go either way.. just like in the West all through the 90's before Duncan came to San Antonio and Kobe/Shaq teamed up in LA.

But if we had a decent center, I'd easily put this group ahead of all those up and coming teams.

[KeonClark]

So. You trade Lowry and you get a late 20's pick and a prospect picked a couple years ago in the late 20's that a contender is willing to give up (ie not really a huge contributor to their current contendership). We're on track to the Finals in two years now are we?

How is having good players signed handcuffing the team? Unless you have specific plans for the cap room this summer (that is, you are also selling Norm), what exactly is having Lowry (as a non-expiring and still tradable additional contract) handcuffing the team from doing?

No, but it's a START, DanH. You seem incredulous to the very idea of Life After Lowry. Well, it's gonna happen one day, either through free agency, trade or retirement. But, through trade he loses more value with each month and year of his career that passes him by. Right here, right now might be the most value he'll ever have.

And to those who suggest "sign him, trade him next year when he has term"...now THAT is a greasy move. That's the move that made Blake Griffin hate the Clippers ownership until the end of time.

[KeonClark]

Yeah the East has gotten better near the middle (7-10 range).. but it's still the middle. Raptors were on pace for 60 wins last year before the bubble, and that was with many guys in and out of the lineup.. but what we had was depth at C.

It could be pie in the sky thinking.. but I don't think we're that far away from being near the Boston/Philly/Miami/Milwaukee group with a lot of luck to surpass the Nets in the playoffs.. It's really just a bunch of teams where any potential series could go either way.. just like in the West all through the 90's before Duncan came to San Antonio and Kobe/Shaq teamed up in LA.

But if we had a decent center, I'd easily put this group ahead of all those up and coming teams.

"If we had this, if we had that, if everything fell right, if we could only get healthy" "Siakam is doing bad because of covid 19" (every other player is immune to the covid/bubble distractions except poor Siakam?

These are, no offense mars, a bunch of excuses. The "if only we had a center" thing is like, well, yeah, we'd probably be better, just like if any other team fixed the biggest hole in their lineup. Boston has had injuries. Philly has had injuries, covid. Milwaukee has had injuries. Miami has been freaking ravaged.

We are our record you guys. We've lost ground.