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  • inthepaint wrote: View Post
    Flynn and Thomas this year (both averaging ~9mins per game):



    Not on those tables:
    PER & True shooting%
    Flynn: 3.5 & .338%
    Thomas: 15.2 & .636%

    Net rating not there either but you can calculate it with the Ortg and Drtg.
    I don't see Thomas' D being that horrid actually. He absolutely should be getting 10 mins off the bench or at least be brought in when our offence stagnates as he can drop you a quick 2 for 3 right away.

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    • G__Deane wrote: View Post

      I don't see Thomas' D being that horrid actually. He absolutely should be getting 10 mins off the bench or at least be brought in when our offence stagnates as he can drop you a quick 2 for 3 right away.
      Yep. Small samples overall but Drtg for them is about the same (Thomas actually 1pt better as of now). The other good defensive metric is D-PIPM. I don't know where to find that online anymore, but I'd say it's probably not that big of a difference, and even if is, probably doesn't make up for the vast difference in offensive impact Thomas has over Flynn.

      The other thing with Thomas people often ignore is that he has enough gravity to force changes in opposing defensive schemes even if he doesn't score, which opens up the game for our wings, particularly Pascal. He's one of the most accurate shooters in the league, and moves a ton off ball, so an opponent can't sit in a zone defence too long with him on the floor. Even if he doesn't touch the ball, there's a guy chasing him around all over, completely unable to help defend anyone. That often creates enough chaos/strain on the opposing D to facilitate the game for our other guys.
      2019 NBA Champions. Glad to have doubted the doubters.

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      • inthepaint wrote: View Post

        Yep. Small samples overall but Drtg for them is about the same (Thomas actually 1pt better as of now). The other good defensive metric is D-PIPM. I don't know where to find that online anymore, but I'd say it's probably not that big of a difference, and even if is, probably doesn't make up for the vast difference in offensive impact Thomas has over Flynn.

        The other thing with Thomas people often ignore is that he has enough gravity to force changes in opposing defensive schemes even if he doesn't score, which opens up the game for our wings, particularly Pascal. He's one of the most accurate shooters in the league, and moves a ton off ball, so an opponent can't sit in a zone defence too long with him on the floor. Even if he doesn't touch the ball, there's a guy chasing him around all over, completely unable to help defend anyone. That often creates enough chaos/strain on the opposing D to facilitate the game for our other guys.
        Guys, be careful. Basketball reference's ORTG and DRTG in that section are NOT the ORTG and DRTG we usually refer to, which are on-court numbers (how well the team performs when the player is on the floor). Instead, they are two statistics calculated entirely differently from boxscore and play by play info. ORTG is essentially individual offensive production per 100 individual possessions (takes into account points, efficiency, turnovers, assists and offensive boards). DRTG uses something called "stop rate" which is a black box nonsense stat that basically just counts their direct guard (which is also just a guess based on height of the players on the court) as well as their individual steal, block and defensive rebounding rates to adjust their on-court rating (rather dramatically). The DRTG in particular is essentially valueless when trying to judge players' defence. The ORTG has a place and use, but it is important to understand these are not the points per 100 possessions ratings we are used to.

        Flynn has a +2 net rating on the season, so is not losing his minutes on aggregate, which is very good for a rookie. 106 ORTG and 104 DRTG.

        Thomas has a -8 net rating on the season. 100 ORTG and 108 DRTG.

        Now, both players, Thomas especially, have too small a sample to be making any real decisions on them.

        But I would certainly rather see Flynn play and develop than Thomas play. Now, whether Thomas should play over a guy like Davis, who mostly brings shooting (though his rebounding can help sometimes) and whose defence is very suspect, is another question. But Davis as ever seems to consistently win his minutes even with some lacklustre defensive effort and focus this year, so hard to sit him. Or Stan, in some situations (if Stan is being used in a lineup where he's a wing or guard I would prefer Thomas, but obviously the hole right now is at the 4/5, so Stan eating those minutes is very helpful).
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